"Beyond Belief" scope setup question???

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by lovdasnow, Nov 16, 2005.

  1. lovdasnow

    lovdasnow Well-Known Member

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    \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    Ok, I'm a newbie to the long range side of things, and this may be a stupid question, but I would like to know.

    How do you get your scope calibrated to dial up like they do in the movie? When they shoot 500 yds, they move their elevation turret to #5 and let er rip, when it's 650 they go 6 1/2 and so on...

    Does premier reticle do that, or can you just set up your scope yourself?
    Kind of in the dark on that one, all I know is that it looked very fast to dial in...
    thanks, Jon
     
  2. lerch

    lerch <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    That video is one of the main reasons I got into longrange shooting and after learning a decent amount over the last year or so I will tell you that that stuff cant work quite as good as it is made out to be.

    out to 500yds or so it would work decently well on large game because your variables arent as important. Once you stretch much past that SO MANY other factors come into play, temp, baro, humidity, elevation, EVERYTHING

    The turrets in the video I believe some of them John Burns made himself. It is a really cool idea but Ijust dont see how it can work consistantly well at really extended ranges.

    if you arent wanting to shoot much past 500yds and are really just wanting to extend your effective deer range check out Kenton Industries, they make some of those turrets


    good luck
    steve
     

  3. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    Dialing in

    There are three different ways and each has its followers. Each way MUST BE VERIFIED by field shooting.

    1. “ballistic plex reticule” such as offered by Burris is very easy and fast and accurate out to about 500 –600 yds as long as you shoot the caliber and bullet that matches it. You set your gun to zero at one hundred yards and verify that at 200, 300, 400yd, etc that the bullet strikes the target when you hold on the target with the appropriate hash mark. Then when you go hunting and see something you use your laser range-finder and determine the range and use that hash mark in the scope as the crosshair. You can have a custom made reticule that will fit your cartridge and bullet out to further ranges but it will only work for that particular bullet at that particular speed

    2. Mil dot reticules. Essentially you zero your gun at 100 (or some other number) and then using a ballistics table convert your drops at every hundred yards to mils. At 500 yds a bullet will drop about 45 inches from a 100 yds zero. This is about 9 mils. So if you ranged a deer at 500 yds you would look through your scope and go down to the 9 mil dot and place that on his shoulder and shoot. The benefit of this system is you can switch bullets, velocities and guns and all you have to do is re-verify your bullet strikes.

    3. Target turrets either come on the scope or are after market. Generic turrets are simply graduated from 1 to 50 or some other number (mine run to 55) With target turrets you zero the gun at 100 yds and record the reading on the turret. You then zero the gun at every 100 yd increment out to what ever range you want and record the setting at each range. This gives you a “setting” on the dial that matches the range. When you see and animal you range it out, check you range card for the appropriate setting and then spin the elevation target turret to the number or setting that corresponds to the range and hold the cross hair on the shoulder and fire. Target turrets can be engraved to fit a particular bullet so that instead of the dial just running from 1 to 50 it is graduated in 100’s of yards. This eliminates the need to the little range card but the draw back is that it is costly and only works for a given bullet at a given velocity when you decide to use a different bullet you will need a new custom knob. The generic knobs are adaptable to any bullet at any speed.
     
  4. 7mmRHB

    7mmRHB Well-Known Member

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    Lov. If you live and hunt in an area that is pretty much flat country, you could probably get by with that kind of system. (if the conditions are always the same. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Most of us out west live at 4500 to 5500 ft in elevation and hunt up to 11000ft or more. much of the time your shot can be as much as 45 or 50 degrees up or down hill.
    The (BEYOND BELIEF) set up can't deal with all those changes and veriables in my opinion.
    7mmrhb
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    lovdasnow

    I'm a Leupold/Unertl kind of guy so here's the way that works for me! On Leupold target knobs on the ones that I have there are 3 small Allan screws in the top of the turrent. I zero at 200 yards and I loosen the 3 screws and I rotate the barrel to "0" and retighten the screws. This is my BASE-LINE ZERO! All other zeros come off of it! I then shoot at all the other ranges...denoting the conditions of BP, Temp, etc. which goes into a DATA BOOK! This procedure has worked consistently well for me all the way out to 1500 yds. with small adjustments made for conditon changes at the varying distances! If you've read this forum much...you'll have read where some of the LR shooters here have made statements that they will take "sighter shots" on a rock or other object at extended ranges before they make a "record shot"! I don't know how well this procedure works because it would seem to me that that would have a tendency to spook the game and in my experience the bull elk in Colorado have excellent ears! IMO....with an accurate rifle/load....and a good shooting position....with much shooting under varying conditions and after learning to dope the "wind devil"....you'll learn to get real close if not right on with your first shot! But...it's not something easily learned!

    These "Old Timers" here know what they're doing! They have much good info!

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  6. Charles A

    Charles A Well-Known Member

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    [ QUOTE ]
    Dialing in

    At 500 yds a bullet will drop about 45 inches from a 100 yds zero. This is about 9 mils.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I think you got a typo there. 45in drop at 500yds is 8.6MOA which equels about 2.6mils, not 9. One mil is 3.44MOA. FYI. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  7. CPorter

    CPorter Active Member

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    Some scopes come with "bullet drop compensators" which are basically target turret knobs calibrated for a specific bullet and muzzle velocity. I had a Bushnell that had several "blank" knobs that you could write on with a felt tip and thus set your ranges on it. My later scopes are set up with target knobs that are engraved in click increments (1/8 moa for mine) and numbered in MOA increments. I have a ballistic program that tells me what the drop is at different yardages and I adjust off it. The program I use also allows me to correct for actual click value on the scope. Some say they are 1/4" but they may be .209" or so...
     
  8. dcosgrove

    dcosgrove Member

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    lovdasnow,
    John Burn has a 3 DVD set out now that explains how he makes those shots. He shows you how he generates the data for the BDC and drop tables he uses. And NO you just don't dial and "let er rip". I wish that it was that easy, I would have more free time then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  9. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    [ QUOTE ]
    think you got a typo there. 45in drop at 500yds is 8.6MOA which equels about 2.6mils, not 9. One mil is 3.44MOA. FYI.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Good job there Charles. Easy to see which one I don't use. Totally forgot that I needed one more conversion factor.
     
  10. ss7mm

    ss7mm Writers Guild

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    lovdasnow:

    If your definition of “long range” lies somewhere in the 500-600 yard range, and you will settle for “pretty close”, then the BDC turrets will work for you. They are a compromise that works under a given set of conditions that you consider “standard” for your hunting/shooting conditions.

    If you’ve seen the latest 3 DVD set from John, you will note that after they work up the BDC info they then make up various sheets for different conditions and inclines. He says they store them under the stock pack they keep their rounds in. This is a whole lot of stuff to carry and not lose. Then you may end up looking at different charts, if you know the conditions and which chart to use.

    If long range for you means from 700 yards out to 2000 yards, or more, then you will eventually get to where the only thing you will accept is to be able to identify the conditions and dial exactly what is needed. If you can’t do this, then the extremely long range shots are gonna drive you wild because you will be basically guessing as to what to dial and where to hold.

    Typically in a fall/winter hunting scenario you will quite possibly be hunting at a time when storm fronts are moving through and conditions are changing. This will give you constantly changing conditions. What I do when hunting in the fall/winter is I will take readings for weather etc. before daylight and enter that into my Palm using Exbal. Then, when and if the weather changes later in the morning, along towards noon, I’ll take another reading and make changes as needed. I’ll then do the same later in the afternoon for the changing conditions along towards late afternoon and sundown. This seems like a lot of messing around but each time only takes about a couple of minutes and then I know what I dial will be exact.

    Typically at long range you won’t be rushed and will have time to look up the necessary dial up numbers and make the changes needed. Once you get the data in your Palm and Exbal, you can see what you need in just a few seconds. It’s not like short range brush hunting where things happen very quickly.

    You also need to understand that, depending on your scope and gun you’re using, that when you go past the first revolution of the elevation turret things can get confusing if you’re using a BDC. With a standard long range setup, you know where your zero you carry the gun is, and can return to that setting easily. You simply range, look up the elevation, crank the turret to that setting and set up for the shot.

    This is just my opinion but I think that as you first get into long range shooting the BDC looks appealing and easy to use. Trust me, if you are serious about long range shooting, it won’t take you long to really get into the fine points of the game. This is where you will start researching, reading and experimenting. At this point you will be wanting to shoot at say 1000 yards. You will find that there are too many variable and since you have advanced to this stage you will want to be as exact with everything you can control as is possible. It’s at this point where you will realize that having all of the data and using it for an exact dial up will be all you’ll accept. This is where you start making first round hits

    The choice is up to you but I would think that for little more than the price of a BDC turret, you could have a Palm and Exbal that would handle all conditions, and then the fun could really start.

    Good luck with your long range shooting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  11. mindcrime

    mindcrime Well-Known Member

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  12. lovdasnow

    lovdasnow Well-Known Member

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    wow, thank you all for the great info. I am hooked on this forum, I'll definatly keep studying this site.
    Sounds like I do not want to go with the turret idea. I'm a perfectionist and not being sure of a first shot hit over 500yds is not my idea of being very ethical. I'll look into the palm thing. That sounds pretty reliable.
    My idea of long range shooting is not 400-500 yds, I think that more around the idea 1,000-2,000yds is pretty dang far.
    can't wait to get my gun built, and start shooting rocks!!!
    thanks for the info! jon
     
  13. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    [ QUOTE ]
    If your definition of “long range” lies somewhere in the 500-600 yard range, and you will settle for “pretty close”, then the BDC turrets will work for you. They are a compromise that works under a given set of conditions that you consider “standard” for your hunting/shooting conditions.

    If you’ve seen the latest 3 DVD set from John, you will note that after they work up the BDC info they then make up various sheets for different conditions and inclines. He says they store them under the stock pack they keep their rounds in. This is a whole lot of stuff to carry and not lose. Then you may end up looking at different charts, if you know the conditions and which chart to use.

    If long range for you means from 700 yards out to 2000 yards, or more, then you will eventually get to where the only thing you will accept is to be able to identify the conditions and dial exactly what is needed. If you can’t do this, then the extremely long range shots are gonna drive you wild because you will be basically guessing as to what to dial and where to hold.

    Typically in a fall/winter hunting scenario you will quite possibly be hunting at a time when storm fronts are moving through and conditions are changing. This will give you constantly changing conditions. What I do when hunting in the fall/winter is I will take readings for weather etc. before daylight and enter that into my Palm using Exbal. Then, when and if the weather changes later in the morning, along towards noon, I’ll take another reading and make changes as needed. I’ll then do the same later in the afternoon for the changing conditions along towards late afternoon and sundown. This seems like a lot of messing around but each time only takes about a couple of minutes and then I know what I dial will be exact.

    Typically at long range you won’t be rushed and will have time to look up the necessary dial up numbers and make the changes needed. Once you get the data in your Palm and Exbal, you can see what you need in just a few seconds. It’s not like short range brush hunting where things happen very quickly.

    You also need to understand that, depending on your scope and gun you’re using, that when you go past the first revolution of the elevation turret things can get confusing if you’re using a BDC. With a standard long range setup, you know where your zero you carry the gun is, and can return to that setting easily. You simply range, look up the elevation, crank the turret to that setting and set up for the shot.

    This is just my opinion but I think that as you first get into long range shooting the BDC looks appealing and easy to use. Trust me, if you are serious about long range shooting, it won’t take you long to really get into the fine points of the game. This is where you will start researching, reading and experimenting. At this point you will be wanting to shoot at say 1000 yards. You will find that there are too many variable and since you have advanced to this stage you will want to be as exact with everything you can control as is possible. It’s at this point where you will realize that having all of the data and using it for an exact dial up will be all you’ll accept. This is where you start making first round hits

    The choice is up to you but I would think that for little more than the price of a BDC turret, you could have a Palm and Exbal that would handle all conditions, and then the fun could really start.

    Good luck with your long range shooting.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    That was so true I had to re-post it. Excellent!
    You took the words right out of my mouth! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  14. lovdasnow

    lovdasnow Well-Known Member

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    Re: \"Beyond Belief\" scope setup question???

    i was just looking at the perry-systems website. That looks like some great info, now I have to buy a palm...are there any other suggestions that you all have to start looking into?
    thanks, jon