Best Carry Options

[Broz]

I want to hear from others that carry and practice on field targets to represent real world situations. I am going to buy a new side arm, I am pretty much dead set on a 1911 compact 45. I have a lot of time behind 1911's.

Here are the 3 firearms I have narrowed it down to. If you have first hand knowledge of a better choice please offer it and include why. No hear say or internet regurgitation please. I need fact before I buy tomorrow.

Choices are all Kimber 3" subcompact 45's.

1: Ultra Crimson Carry II

2: Master Carry Ultra

3" Ultra Covert II

If you carry and shoot defensively please comment.

Thank you!!

Jeff

 

[HARPERC]

Re: Top Conceal Carry Options

No hear say or internet regurgitation please. I need fact before I buy tomorrow.

Leaves me out, but I'd like to follow along. Still looking for my ideal carry system.

 

[Broz]

Re: Top Conceal Carry Options

Leaves me out, but I'd like to follow along. Still looking for my ideal carry system.

Carl, I want to learn from experience if I can. I think "ideal" will vary a little for each of us. I am still on the fence for a holster too. I just want to settle in on one "good" gun and practice with it until I satisfy myself. But plan to carry it daily so it has to be comfortable too.

Jeff

 

[Wile E Coyote]

Re: Top Conceal Carry Options

Jeff, Where I am, concealed carry is a must at all times. I carry a full size SA 1911 most of the time and a stub revolver when I have to have something smaller and lighter. I cannot address the pistols you mention because I don't have them though I have shot the CC II. However, I can tell you a bit about what works for me in holsters and in practice routines. I've come to the conclusion that the holster is just as important as the pistol and the chambering. If you wind up carrying all day, The gun will be in the holster on you all day, every day. If it isn't comfortable, sooner or later, you'll be tempted to leave it home and if one cannot draw it, what good is it?

For the 1911, I have 3 different holsters depending of what I'm doing and what I'm wearing. Why 3? Because I haven't found one that does it all. And I don't think I will.

With the 1911, I started with, and still use most often, with a Galco Concealable belt holster. It is a Outside the Waist Band (OTWB) with a forward cant. This one is good when wearing a sweatshirt or a coat of some sort to afford some concealment. I wear it on the back of my right hip. In this position, the grip doesn't show through the garment as readily as when positioned more to the side. The leather took some time to break in and just like a pair of good boots, it will poke and pinch the first few times wearing it.

This is the holster I am most comfortable wearing and was what I was wearing the one time I had to actually draw on a two legged predator when a situation was going bad fast. I was approached in a parking lot late at night and he tracked me when I changed direction; then flashed a knife. I mumbled and made like I was digging for my wallet and came out with the gun. Safety clicked off and there was an immediate retreat. We all walked away. It happened that fast and ended that fast.

Holster #2 is a CrossBreed Super Tuck ITWB. It's a thick slab of leather with a Kydex shape riveted to it that actually holds the gun. The leather keeps the steel gun off your skin. When worn in the same position as above, it does completely conceal. The down side I find: much harder to draw. You have to get everything covering it off and away before one can draw cleanly. I also don't find it as comfortable wearing it all day long. This has tempted me to not carry a few times. But the gun is no good if you don't have it with you. Another issue I've had with it is the holster and gun riding up and out of the waist band; floating high. It's still under the shirt but absolutely not draw able which means finding a place and time to reassemble yourself. Something that is not always readily available. I don't wear this one often. There are clips that prevent this but the whole rig feels like one has a text book under the belt.

The third holster I have, and just got a few weeks ago, is a Galco Jackass Rig - a shoulder harness type holster. I got this to wear under heavier coats worn this time of year. Sucks having to completely unzip a parka and swing it out of the way to draw. I'm still getting used to it but with the pistol under my left arm it is well concealed yet I can be drawn with a simple unzip; just enough to clear. I've been wearing this when out in the woods, walking the dogs, and doin' chores. I need to practice with this one to get the draw quicker and cleaner but when I get used to it, it may become the favorite.

These holsters are what have worked for me. Whatever you get, just take the time to practice not just drawing but shooting while wearing what ever clothing you use. It is different drawing from work clothes and a suit.

My practice routines include drawing and dry firing at a full length mirror. My wife, G, thinks I'm nuts so I do this when she's not home. For me, it's like archery in that repetition makes one familiar with the gun. I'll load a snap cap in a few magazines and pocket or pouch them just like I would carry. Then draw, dry fire, simulated jam, clear, drop the mag from the gun and new mag in and back into battery, dry fire, simulated jam, clear, drop the mag, new mag in and so on until I go through 3 or 4 mags smoothly. I'll do this blindfolded too because you can't cheat by watching what you're doing. You have to know what the gun feels like and sounds like instinctively.

For live fire practice, I have a place in the woods out back with some chunks of tree trunk stood up to shoot and move around. (The wood was compliments of Hurricane Sandy a few years ago.) I do all the usual stuff but concentrate on being smooth in my motions and accurate to a minute of 9" paper plate out to 7 yards - 21 feet, the Tuller drill range.

During the live drills, once I've got a couple mags worth shot from a combat stance, I spend most of the time shooting from cover or on the move. From cover I mean around stuff, over and under too. I'll also load a snap cap in the middle of a full mag to cause a malfunction and practice clearing while live. I load a bunch of mags and throw them in a box before practice so I don't know what mag has the dummy in it.

Once in a while I'll go shoot in a Wednesday night combat league. This is a place where I can gauge my abilities against others. Quite a few LE and Armed Service represented here along with guys like myself. I can do better than some and can't hold a candle to others. Those are the ones I watch to see their technique.

One last thing about practice I stumbled onto a while back regarding the ammo. For practice I use full power 230 Gn hardball most of the time. No puppy loads here anymore. I want the gun to recoil as similarly as the good ammo I use when I carry. And since I cannot always find the good stuff that runs through my gun, I only shoot the 'old' good stuff when I can find some 'new' to replace it. And that isn't often here.

Some of this may not be conventional but I believe it works for me as I can get most rounds on the paper plates and when I miss, it isn't by much.

I know your original question was probably more about the guns. Again, I cannot speak to any other than I've shot one a few times. This was about how I carry and a bit about my practice routine. I try to shoot it often, though not as much lately as I did when I started to carry a few years ago. I trust you are able to take something from this.

Pete

 

[Broz]

Pete, Great post and I Thank you! We are on the same page! I hope to find that perfect holster too and I think the 3" 1911 might help in that department,,, maybe. I want one good holster so I can hone the muscle memory to draw and fire in a minimal amount of time. I may have to go through a few to find what I want but am optimistic.

So, did you feel the Kimber Compact shot well? How much more recoil over the full size frame 1911?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Dhammer]

It got to be too much at times for me at times since the spine injury to carry my full size 1911 (TRP). A buddy got me in on the Rem friends and family deal for a Para Exec carry. 3 inch, and alloy frame. Def a joy to carry.

I was amazed when looking for holsters how poor the fit and uncomfortable some of the newest hyped holsters are. Not going to bash any companies but some of em should be ashamed.

My thing was wanting a holster that would be comfortable, keep my weapon secure even if I took it out with me scouting and hunting, now that were in the southwest and have certain critters ontop of people that can present problems. I've had situations with people trespassing back in Midwest, so I know how quickly things can turn south. I ended up getting a Nightengale owb. The fit and feel is amazing, keeps it close to my hip and draw is very similar to what my duty holster had been so it worked out perfectly for me in that regards.

 

[KYpatriot]

I switched all my carry weapons to striker fired nines because of capacity concerns so i dont have any experience with compact 1911s, though i have owned a number of fullsized ones. So i dont have any useful info on your weapon choice you dont already have.

I woukd like to second the crossbreed supertuck. Get the horsehide version, and try it around the 3:30 to 4 oclock position, strongside. Carry it a couple weeks and it will conform to you and the weapon. It is the most comfortable holster I own. I have carried with it everyday for six years and it is great.

You probably know this already but you need a good belt to properly hold steady and distribute the weight of your carry rig. This one is easily the best belt i have ever owned, it is now seven years old and is still perfect : Gun Belts by The Belt Man | tel. (919) 387-1997 | DUAL-LAYER BULL HIDE BELTS
I got the option with the velcro backing- the crossbreed and other tuckable holster have a clip option that hooks over your pants and goes behind yourbelt, velcroing to the back of your belt. Works awesome, stable and no clips or anything else is visible- 100% concealed.

Strongside carry is best in my opinion...but i guess that is another subject. Having carried a sidearm for many years both in and out of the military there are man reasons why i prefer it.

 

[Wile E Coyote]

The CC II I shot was relatively new at the time this past summer. My buddy bought it in the spring for the same reasons we have. I thought the fit and finish is/was very good. If I had the cash, I would not hesitate to buy one as the full size IS a bit much sometimes.

I found the laser awkward but that was the first time I ever fired live with one. Its temptation won't take long to get used to though. I'm tempered by the mindset that I must learn the old fashioned, mechanical, analog method before relying on the electronic stuff. Remember when a battery's is most likely to fail? when they're most needed. Thinking this way, one can still function.

In terms of accuracy, the full size has the smaller barrel beat though, at least in my hands. The full size 5" barrel is much easier to get on target and keep it there than is the 3 or 3.5" models. The short sight radius, like any gun, is more demanding on the execution of one's technique more exactly to achieve the same result. The up side to this is these tools are used inside 10 yards and God willing we'll never have to use em.

During that shoot and early on the CC II did jam once in a while but my SA did too. In my case, a few boxes of ammo seemed to get everything seated and settled in. I used that time and ammo to get familiar with the gun and learn how to clear it in a hurry - on the first try. Lou's gun is broken in now and we don't discuss jams anymore.

Handle each of the guns again tomorrow. Run the actions, dry fire them. Of all, you certainly know what to look for mechanically. Which one fits in your hand most comfortably? Then go with your gut. When you make the choice, commit to it. That is the advise I got when I bought my 1911. This from someone who has carried for years as a SP in the service and in LE later. He instilled in me the idea that the pistol isn't a wife but it is the next best friend ya got. Someday, when you need help, that friend has to be there and you have to trust that friendship. Kinda corney but accurate.

Each of those guns you are looking at is well made. If they pass the mechanical inspection, it becomes a question of ergonomics and your choice will be different from mine or anyone else for that matter.

Pete

 

[Broz]

Great info and Thanks to all. I made little mention of holsters but they are on my radar as soon as I pick the firearm. I do think I will end up with a Crimson model, but I too have shot sights so long that I will be looking for sights first by habit.

I will let you know what I end up with. I am leaning toward the Ultra Covert II if it fits my big hands.

Soon the practice to get back to where I once was with hand guns will begin. I am a bit rusty from all the prone trigger time. Looking forward to this.

Jeff

 

[HARPERC]

You probably know this already but you need a good belt to properly hold steady and distribute the weight of your carry rig. This one is easily the best belt i have ever owned, it is now seven years old and is still perfect : Gun Belts by The Belt Man | tel. (919) 387-1997 | DUAL-LAYER BULL HIDE BELTS
I got the option with the velcro backing- the crossbreed and other tuckable holster have a clip option that hooks over your pants and goes behind yourbelt, velcroing to the back of your belt. Works awesome, stable and no clips or anything else is visible- 100% concealed.
/QUOTE]

Thanks, this is a big part of my struggle. Tempted to add a set of suspenders, as it seems the biggest challenge for me is pants won't stay put.

IWB just doesn't suit me, a shoulder holster seems what I come back to. I'm looking at a "roto holster" trying to decide if its just a gimmick or if it's got some substance to it.

Really I've got 3-4 basic needs. 1) A daily carry, Sig P225 2) Recreational carry, a .22 lr 617 "grouse gun" if I have a rifle handy, or the .44 Blackhawk as bear country here extends to the middle of town these days. 3) Maybe a pocket pistol in there someplace.

The Sig is single stack so an extra magazine is useful, but I've got the XDM 9, and haven't worked up an affection for it.

More error than trial, but maybe it helps.

 

[Greyfox]

I have no experience with the Kimbers that you are evaluating but am interested in following the thread and always looking at options.

While I own and shoot a variety of autos and revolvers, my constant carry companion for over 30 years has been a satin nickel Colt Combat Commander that I had the feed ramp worked and trigger job done when I bought it back in the early 80's. It reliably feeds just about anything I feed it and have changed the recoil spring every 10 years. The sights, grip, and trigger and gives a feel that exactly matches my Colt Competition Combat that I owned as long and have used exclusively for CCM competition since the 80's. Having tried several over the years, I have used two holsters that for me are fast, very comfortable, and offer good concealment with minimum printing through my clothing. Both are simple and cheap and sometime I get raised eyebrows but...... They are a #126 Hidden Thunder, and an Uncle Mikes #5 SideKick(in conditions when I don't want an exposed barrel). For ammo, I like 230 Ball.if I ever need to carry something smaller, I use a S&W Snub.

 

[Engineering101]

Broz,

I saw this thread yesterday but didn't say anything as I think you are headed down the right path. However, I do have a story that you may find interesting, especially if you are familiar with the Detonics 45 auto.

Many years ago (around 1980 I think) I dropped by my brother's apartment to say hello. His girlfriend was there along with her sister and her significant other. I noticed the boyfriend (Sid was his name) was packing. Turns out Sid designed the pistol he was carrying. Not something you see everyday. The serial number was interestingly "SID". The reason he designed this pistol was due to a bad on the job experience.

Sid was a member of one of the covert agencies and on one occasion shot a fella through the heart with his service revolver, a 38 special if I recall. As the guy was going down dead he squeezed off a round that hit Sid in the knee. (Yeah, Sid walked with a pretty good limp.) Sid swore he would never go undergunned again and wanted something that would knock a man down. He did not however want to carry a full sized 1911 thus the Detonics was born - a compact, easily carried 45 auto. He let me handle his and I was amazed how you could shut your eyes, bring the gun up and it was on target every time. I of course had to have one and acquired a stainless Detonics Mark VI. To this day, I pack this around in a Bianchi #5 "Blackwidow" holster. It holds 5 in the mag and 1 in the tube. Without laser or using the sights this thing will put 6 into minute of pie plate in a hurry. It does take regular practice to maintain that level of proficiency but that is half the fun.

 

[azsugarbear]

Learned and competed in IPSC with a Colt std. frame in 38 Super. When it came to concealed carry, I tried a couple of SA compacts, but never felt I had full control of the muzzle in terms of accuracy. Just felt out of balance to me. Ended up going back to full size with a Colt Delta Elite (10mm). For me - it is home.

In AZ, concealed carry is an art. IWB is almost a must as anyone with a coat or sweatshirt on looks completely out of place 10 mos. out of the year. After trying several holsters, I stuck with the Crossbreed SuperTuck. It felt a little big and clumsy at first, but now it is part of me. Having the right belt (in terms of width and thickness) is a must. Never experienced the pistol 'riding up' on my hip like some others. Could be my build, the belt, or a host of other reasons.

 

[Broz]

Great thread gentlemen. I am learning and the whole holster thing has my interested peaked. I went out today and started handling different models. I found that I can hold the Kimber Compacts laser inside a tennis ball at 10 yards while dry firing repeatedly. A paper plate sized target should be very doable with live fire. I will find out for sure tomorrow. I ended up with all the bells and whistles and a Kimber custom shop 45 acp Ultra Covert II. Also a spare Kimber mag and a BlackHawk OBL holster with a trailing belt slot, and adjustable tension screw. The holster thing will consist of trying many (some recommended here) until I find the perfect one. I chose this one to start with because with my shoulder injuries I like to cross draw sometimes and want to explore that first.

Anyway, here she is and I will be wearing off the new tomorrow.

Thanks guys and please lets keep this thread going.

Jeff