Berger Bullet QA/QC

[rogerstv]

I am reloading for a new to me 6.5 SAUM with a Stiller Predator Action. I received very little specifics from the seller and the builder. Rifle came with bullets and Whidden dies including a micrometer seating die.

I experienced bullet runout (both COAL and CBTO variations) causing me to measure and sort the bullets themselves. They are Berger Hybrid Target 140 gr. Lot P0785. Out of 52 pieces, 28 weighed 140.0 and 24 140.1.

Out of the 28 140.0's, bullet base to ogive range from 0.719 to 0.723. Some are ones and twos. A couple measurements have more than most. So, I checked the 0.720 BBTO and found a bullet overall length range from 1.402 to 1.417.

I've never sorted bullets and brass before. With very little published data and a lack of information with the rifle, I started from scratch. Headed for a max COAL of 2.880. Magazine is an Accurate 300 WSM. Its' opening measures 2.983. While in the 2.910 thru 2.920 range, the loaded bullets chambered without issue. However while cycling loaded rounds out of the magazine, bullet tips catch on the action and will not feed into the chamber. Even at 2.88, they are catching. I got one to feed after firing a round. The picture depicts the mag well and the action where catching.

I will gladly take any general advice. A couple questions ....

1) Are the variations to be expected with these long bullets?
2) What COAL are others using? I know CBTO is the more important measurement. I plan to send two fire formed brass to Hornady.

 

[WeiserBucks]

You most likely need to tune the magazine. Bend the feed lips to allow the cartridges to feed properly.

 

[Gord0]

Your numbers on the bullets are to be expected. I've got two different lot numbers of some Hornady bullets that measure somewhere around .025" different from base to ogive.

The rifle feeding issue I would take to a Smith. They can probably get you running smooth inno time. I can't really tell much from the picture you posted, sorry.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I don't think there is any way you can see the difference in .1g change from one bullet to the next. Also the base to ogive measuring devises do not give a true representation of bullet length. I am thinking your run out issues are brass related. You should load them and shoot. If the rifle is screwed together well it will most likely shoot well. Even with run out.

 

[rogerstv]

I've shot the SAUM twice and accuracy is not as hoped. I assume either the rifle does not like 140 grain Bergers or the CBTO is way off. I need to determine where the lands start. Had ejector marks with 59.5 grains of RL 26 last night which I believe is a light load. No chronograph readings yet. Fire forming brass and playing with the new toy for now.

My 6.5 Creedmor Sitka with Hornady factory loads out shot the custom 6.5 SAUM last night. Must not have the correct loads for the SAUM.

 

[rogerstv]

You most likely need to tune the magazine. Bend the feed lips to allow the cartridges to feed properly.

I see no way to tune the magazine. It does not have feed lips. The feeder appears to be plastic. And, the spring appears to be way too strong. It is hard to feed ammo into the magazine.

 

[rogerstv]

I sent a PM to the seller and intend to call the supposed builder again to seek answers.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Post a picture of the magazine

 

[BrentM]

59.5 rl26 doesn't seem light to me, although I haven't owned a saum in a long time. I used retumbo in it.

I'm with the others, change mags if they are putting too much pressure on the bullets and changing run out. Tune your loads. I'm not a fan of the 140 hybrid. Found them to be picky on seating depth but if you spend enough time messing with it they will work usually

 

[crkckr]

Does the magazine have feed lips? The feed lips should determine the angle the cartridge is fed into the chamber. It sounds as though the cartridge is trying to enter the chamber nose down, which is causing a jam. If you can correct that without too much monkey motion, it might solve the feeding problem.

If you don't have the tools to determine COAL of your cartridge, the cheapest way to get that number is:
1. Insert and close the bolt
2. Carefully insert a coated rod (preferrably with a flat tip) until it touches the bolt face. Put a piece of masking tape on the rod and using a sharpie, mark the rod at the muzzle.
3. Remove the rod & bolt and drop the bullet nose first into the chamber. Check visually to be certain it is nose down. Give it a couple of LITE taps with a pistol rod.
4. Carefully and slowly insert the rod back into the muzzle until it contacts the bullet tip. You'll need to put another piece of masking tape on the rod, then mark the rod the exact same way you did in step 2.
5. Pull the rod out and using a dial caliper (*after* you knock the bullet back out!), measure from the bottom of one line to the bottom of the other and that will be your COAL for that bullet.

I usually measure several bullets to determine their average OAL and use an average one for this process. It's not perfect, since different bullets, even from the same lot, can vary in OAL, but it's certainly close enough to keep the bullets off the lands when you're loading. If you use a comparator, as I do, use the average bullet and load it into a case, then measure the COAL with the comparator.

I've never used any of the devices made for checking this number, I've always done it in the manner described, so I can't offer any insight as to how they compare. However, I do know a couple of pieces of tape is about as cheap as you can get! It's always worked well for me so I've never felt the urge for a new tool.
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[rogerstv]

Loaded three shells in the magazine. Hard to load. Lots of spring pressure.

First round would load into chamber. Upon unloading, the shell failed to eject. Pulled it by hand. Second shell now too far forward. Tip caught on action. I don't see how to adjust magazine. Appears to be rivets in holes on the inside.

 

[rogerstv]

COAL of bullet is 2.881.

 

[cjl2010]

Have to notch the feed ramp for your other rounds to pop up.

 

[rogerstv]

Have to notch the feed ramp for your other rounds to pop up.

As in notch the action?? I can see where that could help. I'm in communication with the seller who is supposed to provide me with the COAL he was using. I asked the smith if he can confirm the build if I provided the S/N. He said no. Really no help at all from the smith.