Berger 205 EH's vs 210 VLD's

[fnlights]

Does anyone have any experience with either of these bullets? I am looking to try something else in my Bergara Premier Highlander in .300WM. I am currently reloading some Berger 215's, but they flat out won't shoot in this gun. I am getting slow velocities with 75gr of H1000 (around 2,700) and not great groups.

I am trying to decide if I want to pursue some 210 VLD's or 205's as I imagine that either of these will stabilize a bit better in the Bergara. I also have some Berger 200.20x's, but not entirely sure how those would perform on game.

 

[wasskeet]

I had pretty good success with the 205EH in a Bergara Ridge (cheapie model) in .300 PRC. This bullet and the 199 Hammer Hunter were the only ones consistently under an inch at 100yds. Usually about .700-.750" 3-shot groups at .020" off with 8133 or H1000. Out of these, the only other bullets tried were Hornady 212,220 ELDX, 225 ELDM and lighter Bergers (180). Didn't have any 215/210 to try.

 

[trout004]

I put about 350 of the 210 VLD Hunting bullets out of a Seekins PH2 300 WM last year. At about 2930 FPS using N565, they shot about 1/2 to 1/3 MOA at 100 and they averaged in the 1/2 MOA range at 600-800 yds. I started a new lot of ADG brass this spring. I was not overly-confident in the blood trails that the 210 VLD's left on the mule deer and elk that I shot with them last year. Also, the animals seemed to not die as fast as my previous encounters with the ELD-X and ELD'M's despite both being hit square through both lungs. So, I decided to run with the 208 ELD-M's this year. They were pretty easy to tune and I am getting bug holes. In addition, I can't complain about the higher BC and the fact that they cost about 1/3 less. Good luck with your new bullet search.

 

[fnlights]

I put about 350 of the 210 VLD Hunting bullets out of a Seekins PH2 300 WM last year. At about 2930 FPS using N565, they shot about 1/2 to 1/3 MOA at 100 and they averaged in the 1/2 MOA range at 600-800 yds. I started a new lot of ADG brass this spring. I was not overly-confident in the blood trails that the 210 VLD's left on the mule deer and elk that I shot with them last year. Also, the animals seemed to not die as fast as my previous encounters with the ELD-X and ELD'M's despite both being hit square through both lungs. So, I decided to run with the 208 ELD-M's this year. They were pretty easy to tune and I am getting bug holes. In addition, I can't complain about the higher BC and the fact that they cost about 1/3 less. Good luck with your new bullet search.

Have you tried running Berger 215's? Odd you did not get great results from the 210's - I have not seen many complaints about them. That is good to know though

 

[trout004]

I never did try to the 215's - like many I was just forced to use other bullets since it was easier to win the lottery than find the 215's last year (and maybe this year too.)

As for the bullet change, I kind of view it like a fly or lure when fishing. If you don't have complete confidence it it, don't use it. I only shot two animals and the results were definitely lethal, but I just didn't get the bigger blood trails that I was used to seeing. I'm not sure that it matters, but the majority of the bleeding seemed to start under the hide - which seems to fit Berger's explanation of the bullet penetrating for a few inches and then the damage and expansion starts to happen.

With the 210's, I was using Hornady cases and I cut them in half to examine for case head stretching. They were thinning by a good amount, so I decided to ditch them an run with a new lot of ADG brass. It was at that point that I decided to make the switch. Besides, I enjoy new load workup. I'm sure the 210's kill just fine.

For what it's worth, I am attaching a picture showing entry hole damage on a cow elk. Shot with Berger 210's from about 270 yards, 300 WM about 2930 fps. It looks like there was some pretty good shock inside the cavity - split some gaps between the ribs from the hydrostatic shock.

 

[Kimber7man]

I'll trade you a full box of the 205's for a box of your 215's.

 

[Methow Packer]

I never did try to the 215's - like many I was just forced to use other bullets since it was easier to win the lottery than find the 215's last year (and maybe this year too.)

As for the bullet change, I kind of view it like a fly or lure when fishing. If you don't have complete confidence it it, don't use it. I only shot two animals and the results were definitely lethal, but I just didn't get the bigger blood trails that I was used to seeing. I'm not sure that it matters, but the majority of the bleeding seemed to start under the hide - which seems to fit Berger's explanation of the bullet penetrating for a few inches and then the damage and expansion starts to happen.

With the 210's, I was using Hornady cases and I cut them in half to examine for case head stretching. They were thinning by a good amount, so I decided to ditch them an run with a new lot of ADG brass. It was at that point that I decided to make the switch. Besides, I enjoy new load workup. I'm sure the 210's kill just fine.

For what it's worth, I am attaching a picture showing entry hole damage on a cow elk. Shot with Berger 210's from about 270 yards, 300 WM about 2930 fps. It looks like there was some pretty good shock inside the cavity - split some gaps between the ribs from the hydrostatic shock. View attachment 366209

The 215Berger flat work out of my 30Nolser. I'm right at 3085 FPS. You'll find they work equally well in your 300WM. For some magical reason they perform flawlessly. Keep the hollow point open as larg as possible. Even with a small numbers drill. They have less bearing surface than the 210 Bergers so they fly faster. The 205EL have the same characteristics

 

[Pdvdh]

I never did try to the 215's - like many I was just forced to use other bullets since it was easier to win the lottery than find the 215's last year (and maybe this year too.)

As for the bullet change, I kind of view it like a fly or lure when fishing. If you don't have complete confidence it it, don't use it. I only shot two animals and the results were definitely lethal, but I just didn't get the bigger blood trails that I was used to seeing. I'm not sure that it matters, but the majority of the bleeding seemed to start under the hide - which seems to fit Berger's explanation of the bullet penetrating for a few inches and then the damage and expansion starts to happen.

With the 210's, I was using Hornady cases and I cut them in half to examine for case head stretching. They were thinning by a good amount, so I decided to ditch them an run with a new lot of ADG brass. It was at that point that I decided to make the switch. Besides, I enjoy new load workup. I'm sure the 210's kill just fine.

For what it's worth, I am attaching a picture showing entry hole damage on a cow elk. Shot with Berger 210's from about 270 yards, 300 WM about 2930 fps. It looks like there was some pretty good shock inside the cavity - split some gaps between the ribs from the hydrostatic shock. View attachment 366209

That's why I call them Burgers

 

[Mcranch]

At 2700 fps your saying that the 215's are not stabilizing? Have your worked up to pressure? Maybe getting the speed a little faster will help. Check te Berger bullet computer for altitude and minimal velocity. I'm also concerned since I have a couple of boxes of 215 and 205 I'm wanting to load up in a 1/10 twist barrel at 1200 altitude. My goal is to get them over 3000 fps?

 

[fnlights]

At 2700 fps your saying that the 215's are not stabilizing? Have your worked up to pressure? Maybe getting the speed a little faster will help. Check te Berger bullet computer for altitude and minimal velocity. I'm also concerned since I have a couple of boxes of 215 and 205 I'm wanting to load up in a 1/10 twist barrel at 1200 altitude. My goal is to get them over 3000 fps?

Not saying they are not stabilizing, I am just saying that my 1/10 will not shoot them for anything. I am not at all blaming the twist, it could be as simple as my gun not liking them, it happens all the time!

I did use the Berger calculator, and a 1/10 twist needs to be moving close to that 3k FPS to stabilize - which I am not there. I am also not sold that my Caldwell Chrono from Amazon is reading a correct speed. I have seen online that people have compared them to a more expensive chrono and it would consistently read 130fps slower than a higher end chrono. If that is the case, then I would be close to the ideal range.