esshup
Well-Known Member
Agreed. With my one rifle burning 108-110 grains per projectile booted out the barrel, and knowing that if I do my part it's a 1/4 moa rifle, once it gets to 1/2 moa it's time for a new tomato stake.
Barrel Life
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Jack R Tishue Jr
Well-Known Member
barrel burning has more to do with case shape that amount of powder. The 6.5x284 a famous barrel burner as is the 243, due to the case shape funneling hot gas so that it rapidly eats the barrel. Esshup, why would anyone get rid of a 1/2 minute barrel. Back when I first got into shooting (late 50s) a 1/2 in gun would win BR matches, and 1/2 a bout 5 times as good as it has to be to be hunting rifle accuracy.
Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
Partially true........a 6.5x284 shovels a bunch more powder down a 6.5 bore then a 6.5 BR or a 260 Remington. More powder equates to less barrel life.
Jack R Tishue Jr
Well-Known Member
It is NOT the amount of powder, it's the shape of the case. a 260 will last longer than a 243, due to case shape, and a 6mm Rem will too. The 6.5x284 has a useful "target" shooting life of around 600 rounds. A 30/06 has a useful live of around 3,000 rds. Same with the 308.
DocDoc
Well-Known Member
The .260 Rem has the same shoulder angle as the .243. With heavy for caliber bullets, they burn about the same amount of powder. The .243 is pushing the hot gas down a smaller hole, so the barrel life is shorter.
The military recognized the .308 to have a longer accurate barrel life than the .30-06. Even though the 06 has a longer neck length, it burns about ten grains more powder. More hot gas and smaller hole result in shorter barrel life.
The military recognized the .308 to have a longer accurate barrel life than the .30-06. Even though the 06 has a longer neck length, it burns about ten grains more powder. More hot gas and smaller hole result in shorter barrel life.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Case shape is good reasoning, but with trending and polling of cartridge use in short to long BR competition, accuracy step changes follow:
#1 shot rate
#2 powder amount*
#3 powder heat potential*
#4 peak pressure
#5 life extending actions (moly, melonite, etc)
* [w/resp to cal]
A 26nos has a smaller bore than 30nos. Both 6.5x284 and 243win are overbore for cal. 308 and 260 and 243 use the same case, same shapes, barrel lives drop respectively due to bore diameters.
Some cartridges survive longer with use of H1000, which is cool burning (magic stuff).
Maybe I'm different, but I personally cannot stand shooting a gun with worse results than I'm used to from it. So I totally understand esshup's perspective.
Hunting accuracy requirements are relative to a great many things. And given that accuracy is the most powerful of ballistic attributes, your true capabilities are heavily tied to it. When I'm positioned across a field to hit groundhogs at 500-600yds, presenting only their heads (due to grass height), I need 1/4moa. I couldn't hunt that field without it, and them **** marmats know it.
#1 shot rate
#2 powder amount*
#3 powder heat potential*
#4 peak pressure
#5 life extending actions (moly, melonite, etc)
* [w/resp to cal]
A 26nos has a smaller bore than 30nos. Both 6.5x284 and 243win are overbore for cal. 308 and 260 and 243 use the same case, same shapes, barrel lives drop respectively due to bore diameters.
Some cartridges survive longer with use of H1000, which is cool burning (magic stuff).
Maybe I'm different, but I personally cannot stand shooting a gun with worse results than I'm used to from it. So I totally understand esshup's perspective.
Hunting accuracy requirements are relative to a great many things. And given that accuracy is the most powerful of ballistic attributes, your true capabilities are heavily tied to it. When I'm positioned across a field to hit groundhogs at 500-600yds, presenting only their heads (due to grass height), I need 1/4moa. I couldn't hunt that field without it, and them **** marmats know it.
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Creedmoor shooter
Well-Known Member
You realize that 243 and 260 are based on the 308 resulting in the same case shape right? Wouldnt that equal the same barrel life by your reasoning? Or if the 6mm rem has a case design that improves barrel life, then I should be able to neck it down to 22 cal and make a 22-6mm rem and have better barrel life than a 243?
xsn10s
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Rflshootr
Well-Known Member
I'll say it again....any given bore size will only burn a certain number of grains of powder..............
BallisticsGuy
Well-Known Member
Well, let's consider that for a minute.
Let's take .223/.224 bore diameter. A .223 rem burning 24 grains of powder for 62k psi with 3890 kj/kg of energy content in the powder, using the spreadsheet calculator, says 3050rds. That's 10.45lbs of powder. If we go to a .22-250 burning 36 grains per shot at the same 62k psi with the exact same powder we get 1320rds. That's 6.8lbs. If we move up to .223WSSM with 41.5 grains per shot we get 1020rds. That's 6lbs. Doing the calculation for a fictitious case with 31 grains per shot (I think that's a .224 Val load) we get 2230rds which comes out to 9.88lbs.
So we see that we get a distinctive curve shaping out as one would expect in a universe that seems to hate straight lines.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
I don't know where you get that, or how it would correlate with barrel life,, but it isn't true at all.
You have different bullet weights, different powder burn rates(which vary again with temp/pressure), different barrel lengths.
esshup
Well-Known Member
Jack, for the same reason why we all don't have Black and White TV's in our houses that we use as our main TV, nor drive cars without seatbelts, and have ABS on our cars. Times change. Also, for the distance that I'm shooting that rifle. 2.5 MOA is nowhere near as accurate as it needs to be, even 1/2 moa is sketchy on deer sized game when you figure in the oops factor if I mis judge the wind, even by a little bit.
I have a .243 that is a 1 moa gun, and for the distances I use it for deer, it's more than enough.
