Another mainstream gunwriter going after long range hunting....

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fiftydriver, Mar 18, 2007.

  1. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I just finished reading an article in the latest issue of Handloader magazine. I still read this mag because I feel it is one of the few left that offers at least some usible information.

    Came across the article by John Barsness titled "7x57mm Mauser".

    Since John is a Montana boy I generally read his stuff but will admit lately he has been taking the same path as Jim Zumbo giving long range hunters a jab here and there. I do not mind the occasional ribbing but in this article I read something that bothered me more then normal.

    To set this up, John is trying to say that the 7x57 mauser will do anything you need done on any non-dangerous game animal out to 400 yards easily. And then he starts talking about the percentage of game he has taken and witnessed taken over the years and what range these animals were harvested at. This is where he made some comments that I wanted to bring to your attention. John lists a graph telling the percentage of animals taken at the various ranges over his hunting carreer:

    under 50 yards..............8.0%
    50 to 100 yards.............32.3%
    101 to 200 yards............37.5%
    201 to 300 yards............14.4%
    301 to 400 yards............6.1%
    401 to 500 yards............1.6%
    over 500 yards..............0.003%

    I did not have a problem with this. These numbers are from Johns personal hunting carreer and from someone that feels 300 yards is a long shot on game, what else would you expect from his hunting results.

    Then I read the following paragraphs:

    "So 92.3% of all animals taken were shot at 300 yards or less, and 98.4% at under 400 yards. Yes, there are "experts" out there who pride themselves on shooting animals at longer ranges.
    I have been around several of "these". One(who accounted for the 0.003% of animals-a single pronghorn-shot past 500 yards) took several shots at various pronghorn bucks in a herd before finally killing a buck around 700 yards.("Various" means he started shooting at what he thought was the biggest buck, but ended up killing a 12incher.)

    The last "long-range wonder" I ran into had both cow and bull elk tags on a hunt in Colorado. He was a number-doubler, meaning that he bragged by citing two numbers: "I shot a 327" bull in Arizona at 403 yards, and a 358" at 587 in New Mexico." In Colorado, that week, he shot a 5 point bull at about 100 yards, missed a cow at around 300, and wounded(and lost) another cow at around 150 yards. Somehow the failures never make it onot the list of long-range successes."

    Now I marked some key words in this portion of article with "" so that you can see what I am concerned with.

    TO start with he lists those of us that hunt at ranges over 500 yards as EXPERTS and them associates us with some incompetent hunter that obviously knows less then John about long range hunting from HIS account anyway. We all know how gun writes twist conversations and events to prove their point however. Is John doing this?????

    Then it takes a cut at us by labeling us "long-range wonders" in the last portion of the clip. And then pointed out that this long range hunter could not kill a cow elk at 300 yards and did even worse on a cow at 150 yards.

    Then he goes onto list three occurances that he says were the only missed or lost animals that occured over 40 years of hunting with the 7-57 mauser.

    A pronghorn that he shot over and missed by shooting high at 300 yards because the 7-57 shot so much flatter then he thought it did. My question, why the hell are you hunting pronghorn with a rifle that you would need to hold off hair with at only 300 yards!!!! Proof of his expertise!!

    The second failure was an elk that was wounded and lost but this was not his fault, it was because the bullet hit a ponderosa pine branch and was deflected into a non vital part of the elk. THis is OK and ethical to not pay attention to obsticles in your shooting lane and loosing a wounded elk as a result but to shoot past 500 yards is simply listed as nonsense.

    THe third occurance was a a Kudu that was shot "in the wrong place". BUT, it was recovered after a couple hours of tracking the poor wounded animal and since it was the same 7-57 that wounded the animal to begin with that finally finished off the animal, it was alright and acceptible from what I get from Johns writings. Sounds like the Kudu was to far away for John to be shooting at if he could not put that bullet in the right spot!!!

    Point being he, like most mainstream gunwriters hammer others in the sport and then justify their mistakes that occur for the same reasons.

    Personally I am getting sick of this crap. I just wish there were more dedicated long range hunters to boycott these magazines so that they would notice the drop in sales.

    Maybe John needs to come to my place in Montana and I can show him what can be done with the right equipment as far as hunting past 500 yards.

    Anyway, just wanted to point this out to you. This will be the last magazine I buy that has john Barsness as an author. His holier then thou attitude is taking him down the same path as Zumbo. Hopefully it does not take John so long to get there!!!

    Anyway, your opinions wanted.

    Kirby Allen(50)

    "
     

  2. CatShooter

    CatShooter Well-Known Member

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    Good afternoon Kirby...

    I grew up on G&amp;A, and the like when I was a little kid, and the writers were Elmer Keith, Charlie Askins, and the like, but I haven't bought a G&amp;A or other "outdoors" magazine in over 20 years.

    These guys see the world from their perspective, and anything past that is "unacceptable".

    I have had "experts" tell me that the .222 Mag can't kill a Prairie Dog past 350 yds. (HA!) How do you argue that? You don't, you just chalk them off and walk away.

    Most "gun people" see shooting from their own level of skills, "If I can't do it, then nobody can do it". You can see that all over the web, including here.

    You just write the editor a polite letter, telling him that his charming writer is full of it, and cancel your subscription.
     

  3. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Well-Known Member

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    I've got to where I despise almost any gun/hunting/firearm magazine because they all seem to be almost flat-out advertisements for various guns and other hunting equipmemt.

    If y'all know of a good periodical, please let me know...
     
  4. timl

    timl Well-Known Member

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    I think they're all pretty bad, but I still subscribe to Rifleshooter. I like to read Craig Boddington's stuff. And of course anything Ian M. writes.
     
  5. Sendero_Man

    Sendero_Man <strong>SPONSOR</strong>

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    Playboy..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Just a thought..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  6. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    A pronghorn that he shot over and missed by shooting high at 300 yards because the 7-57 shot so much flatter then he thought it did.

    my question on this one is why is he shooting at game at a farther distance than he has proven he can do on paper.he obviously hadn't even shot the gun at that distance before!

    i'm with Sendero. i like the scenery pictures in Playboy. all the mountains and valleys....
     
  7. buffalorancher

    buffalorancher Writers Guild

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    I read this article too and couldn't figure out how he ended up going in the direction he did. This editorializing does not add anything of value to the article and just reinforces the "holier than thou" attitude of so many writers today. Does this attitude sell more magazines? Wouldn't it just be better in our modern day climate of political correctness and antihunting sentiment to just leave this subject alone? The comment of shooting over the animal because the rifle shot so flat sounds like something one of my clients would say as everyone else rolls their eyes.
    Lance
     
  8. Dan B

    Dan B Well-Known Member

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    My wife renewed my "Shooting Times" subscription a few months back w/o me knowing it. Had it not been for that...I get NO newstand subsciption magazine (NSM)...other than "Traditional Bowhunting". The only other is "Handgun Hunter Magazine".

    The NSM's are all just rehashed articles by a bunch of "Yes-men" so-called gunwriters that are only looking to line their pockets with freebe's and hunting trips. Take a year's worth of three magazines (G&amp;A, Shooting Times and any other) and note the featured articles...one will run the story, a month later the next has it and by month three, the third has it. Same thing with the writer's columns...the restate the same crap and rerun it over and over. Just how many times do I need the read the same damned .270 Winny vs 30-06 article!!

    Rant OFF!!
     
  9. Shawn Carlock

    Shawn Carlock Sponsor

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    I suspect it more of the same old thing, "those that can do and those that can't complain". I have seen this monster rear it's ugly head in shooting sports and other sports as well. As a pro motorcross racer if you can sky out a huge jump land sideways and slide into the corner just right and no one else is, your just crazy, reckless and not long for this world even though you have been doing it for years. These coments will come from fellow competitors that should know better.
     
  10. Willys46

    Willys46 Well-Known Member

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    "If y'all know of a good periodical, please let me know..."
    Triggernosis the only one that I will buy is the Varmint Hunter. I have found some decent articles about long range hunting even though they are about P-Dogs. Problem is only 4 mags a year published.
     
  11. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Dave,

    Amen!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  12. longrangebo

    longrangebo Well-Known Member

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    Maybe these gunwriters could learn something by logging onto this website, I live here in Pa. around many longrange hunters and shooters,a lot of us doing it for 35-40 years. Hopwever I learn something just about everytime I check it out,thanks to everyone! There is no teacher like experince!As far as the books ,I haven,t bought any for years,You guys pretty much know the reason.
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Lance,

    I agree, why even bring it up. In fact I was rather enhoying the article about the old 7mm mauser until the article took this 180 degree turn for no appearent reason other then to take the opportunity to give LRHs a jab in the ribs.

    It did not fit with the article in any way and really made no sense. This is what gets these guys in trouble. If they would make comments like this in an article where it would fit in, no one would really notice it as much but when its totally out of place, it stands out like the proverbial red headed step child!!!

    I would also agree with you on the fact it helps none of the hunting community to bring this up.

    We are all in the same fight here, traditional archers, modern archers, handgun hunters, rifle hunters, muzzleloader hunters, close range hunters, long range hunters, 50 cal hunters and sub bore caliber hunters, we are all in the same fight to keep our entire hunting sport.

    What bothers me is that those of us in the extreme elements of our sports will, on any occasion we can, come to fight to support all other forms of hunting and shooting.

    On the other hand, how often do we hear the mainsteam gunwriters attack long range hunting or hunting with a nontraditional type of firearm. Why is this? How does this help our sport as a whole?

    As far as that comment you would hear from your clients, hopefully you will not hear me make that comment to you!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    And I assure you you will have a new toy that will reach out to twice the range Barsness is compaining about so easily it would make him feel pretty pitiful!!!

    Thanks for the reply!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Dan B,

    I agree, its about time we read an article titled, "30-06 vs 270 AM"

    Would not matter however, they would just say out to 400 yards they are identical!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Kirby Allen(50)