Am I about to blow my face off?

[milo-2]

Retumbo and H1000 are next on my list of powders to try, as soon as I can get my hands on it.

Through all these posts, I am not sure I have figured out exactly what your goal is. If it is speed alone, only in the perfect storm will either of those powders give you more than what you are using now.
I am going to assume just by your original post that you are newer to reloading so I am going to give you one piece of advice, you can sort through it.
Forget the glitter(speed), develop a load that holds a tight waterline to the distance of what the rifle and load can accomplish efficiently. So, just because your rifle can make a hit at 2300 yards, it does not make it a 2000 yard gun.
Random numbers here, just say 1300 yards becomes your apex, you want this rifle capable at this distance. Develop a load where your vertical spread is minimal here. It will carry further out and still do fine to a point. But now, any shot from 100-1300 yards now will be like you eating a big fat piece of german chocolate cake with not one, but 3 layers of yummy frosting.
Most, not all of us go through phases in reloading, from scared to pushing the limits and in between. You run on the edge of hot, moisture, heat, and others are now elements that cannot work in your favor.

 

[ahhdioguy]

Silly question but are you calibrated to a standard for velocity measurements? Need to verify that because it may explain the data your seeing. Setting up for the measurement can produce error in itself if things are not set right from test to test it can introduce variance In to your sample.

 

[Gibbshooter43]

Just an observation... There is an unintentional fixation on speed. How many posts begin with "my xyz load was really fast and accurate" - fast is almost always mentioned first. Many of us came of age in the 60's when a significant measurement of status was the speed of your car. Moved into reloading in the 70's and that same obsession carried over. Age does bring with it certain advantages, and the focus hopefully transitions to "accurate and fast". So stay safe - reload with care - and happy long term success in finding that 5 shot, one hole, repetitive group at whatever range makes you smile!

 

[Tex_Hunter]

Where you are at is certainly not going to blow up that 700. It is probably one of the strongest actions made. The three rings of steel they used for advertising for years is no joke. I have had three of them in my shop that had the actions locked up from overloads. One guy forgot and substituted 4895 for 4831 in a 264 Win Mag. The 2nd one in a wild chase after a coyote reloaded his 270 with his buddies 308 reloads. The third one did the same thing with a 25-06. After several days of soaking with Kroil and finally getting the bolt to move, cut off the case, dug out the stuck shell head. Could not find any damage to the bolt every thing worked fine. Fired shells showed no more expansion than normal.

Lol... 3 rings of steel is marketing copy to gloss over all of the corners they cut in developing the rifle. An old salty (but very knowledgeable and well respected) gunsmith friend of mine once wrote the following on the subject:

"Remington designed the 700 to cheapen the cost to manufacture a bolt action rifle. They did this by eliminating safety features from the Mauser action, and eliminating other things like integral recoil lugs (which is why they use a washer), forged bolts (which is why their bolts are soldered together from three pieces), a safety on the bolt (which was partly responsible for the Rem700 trigger issues in the past), a real extractor (which is why there is a market for M16 or Sako style extractors for the 700 bolts) etc."

Yeah... real solid there.

 

[Rooks]

I just bought a Remington 700 Long Range in .300 win mag. First off, I shot 10rds of factory 180gr core-lokt ammo (the cheap stuff) just to sight in the scope and shoot a couple of groups. Both groups were just under 1in at 3,031fps. I'm pretty happy with that. Now on to reloading.
I started off using 212 ELD-X's and RL-26. I'm using load data from my Nosler manual with loads listed for the 210gr Accubond LR. It lists a max of 76.0gr, at a velocity of 2,874 out of a 24" barrel.

I have a 26" barrel. These were my readings from my Caldwell chronograph:
Remington brass, CCI-250, 74.0gr RL-26, 3.600 COAL = Avg. 2,926fps with no pressure signs at all.
Remington brass, CCI-250, 75.0gr RL-26, 3.600 COAL = Avg. 2,996fps, easy bolt lift, primer still pretty round on edges, slightest ejector mark barely visible.

I was hoping for good speed, but this doesn't seem right. I didn't shoot the rest of my ammo, which I loaded at 76.0gr of RL-26, for fear of blowing myself up.
What do you guys think about these velocity's?
Anyone with QL care to chime in?
Thanks.

I've had a couple buddies use those rifles for projects and they have all worked extremely well in the end. Our experience has been that with more than one, not all, of those rifles had relatively roomy chambers and medium/slow barrels. It would appear that you got a good one! Those velocities are reasonable, if your brass looks happy. Keep monitoring your brass closely, velocities and pressure signs can increase slightly as you work your brass over a number of firings.

 

[L.Sherm]

If this were true why so many custom 700 clones out there?

 

[L.Sherm]

forged bolts (which is why their bolts are soldered together from three pieces),

Far as I know the only thing on a 700 bolt thats soldered is the handle

 

[sfdoc2000]

Optimal Barrel Time, the amount of time the bullet is is the barrel after firing. Think Long brothers came up with it. It denotes barrel nodes, they were ahead of the times.
I think we as shooters have simplified the process with the use of chronograghs with ES & SD numbers.
Also, for 99.99999999% of us, getting that measurement was out of our reach.

Here is Chris Long's original paper on OBT nodes. http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT_paper.htm
Kind of a tough read unless you have a degree in engineering. But it makes sense and can help explain a lot about where shots are going on paper.
I started looking at this several years ago when I first got Quickloads and found that to hit these nodes on the first load test sometimes just doesn't work, and sometimes the nodes do not correspond with what I was seeing at the range with ladder testing. There are so many variables with the weapon, chamber volumes, brass, neck tension, that all these things cannot be fully accounted for in a simulation such as Quickloads. But simulations are just that, and unfortunately garbage in, garbage out. What I am seeing is that the predicted nodes are usually close but not right on to where I get the best groupings. There are also some intermediate nodes (between the predicted numbered nodes) that can also give tight groups. There are several threads on this subject on this site that discuss this.
Quickloads can help reduce your time in load development by comparing initial load results with range results, and modification of your loads using this information over three or four iterations. Once you get a good load then you can experiment with neck tensions, seating depths, although some like to go with seating depth first then determine optimal powder charge and resultant muzzle velocity. Do what works best for you and carefully examine your brass for overpressure signs.

 

[KS2506]

Second L. Sherm's comment and question. I have never seen a 700 with a safety on the bolt unless it was a conversion. Mr. Sherm is correct about the bolt having a bolt handle that is furnace brazed to the bolt body. The 788 is the Remington that has a three piece bolt body. I have also seen a Model 70 push feed that was over loaded because of a powder mix up and it blew part of the locking lug and extractor out of the bolt and swelled the chamber. Stuart Otteson wrote a two volume set of books on actions in 1985 which is very detailed in the manufacture of the actions covered. He says the 700 is one of the strongest actions made. He said this three rings of steel arrangement was used by the Japs in their Type 38 rifle. Read about tests of PO Ackley trying to destroy WWII actions. The Jap was the only one that he could not blow up in his tests. Other methods of manufacture were used to produce actions faster and cheaper, but the three rings of steel is no joke when it comes to strength.

 

[Tex_Hunter]

I have never seen a 700 with a safety on the bolt unless it was a conversion.

Correct... the comment was a list of things Remington removed from other action designs to cut down the cost (the parenthesis was explaining why this lead to issues with R700s).

Your comment about the M70 you saw is irrelevant unless you are saying you've seen the exact same failure in a Remington that was contained in a better manner.

Remingtons are prolific because they are accurate and cheap... custom actions that are dimensional copies share only a few common design features other than trigger and stock compatibility and correct the majority of the shortcomings of the original design (integral lug, one piece bolt, etc)

None of this is really relevant to the OP though, using Nosler load data for a Nosler bullet to try and work up a load for a completely different weight Hornady bullet while ignoring velocity way higher than expected is a recipe for disaster regardless of what action you are using.

 

[L.Sherm]

So you dont think the 700 was an improvement over the 721 or 788. Just cost cutting measures?

 

[MSURunner]

Thanks for the data!

Does anyone have any data from Hornady? I don't own the Hornady book. My local gun store is literally sold out of all of their reloading manuals, and bullets, and powder, and brass for that matter.

I tried finding the data online, but couldn't find rl-26/212-eldx data.

Hornady hasn't released one featuring RL26 with that weight.

 

[Tex_Hunter]

Does anyone have any data from Hornady? I don't own the Hornady book. My local gun store is literally sold out of all of their reloading manuals, and bullets, and powder, and brass for that matter.

They have an app, and an e-book.

Alliant posts all their data online for free.

 

[Subzero]

Correct... the comment was a list of things Remington removed from other action designs to cut down the cost (the parenthesis was explaining why this lead to issues with R700s).

Your comment about the M70 you saw is irrelevant unless you are saying you've seen the exact same failure in a Remington that was contained in a better manner.

Remingtons are prolific because they are accurate and cheap... custom actions that are dimensional copies share only a few common design features other than trigger and stock compatibility and correct the majority of the shortcomings of the original design (integral lug, one piece bolt, etc)

None of this is really relevant to the OP though, using Nosler load data for a Nosler bullet to try and work up a load for a completely different weight Hornady bullet while ignoring velocity way higher than expected is a recipe for disaster regardless of what action you are using.

You've never run into an instance where you couldn't find load data for your exact cartridge, bullet and powder combination? Maybe you only shoot .308 or 6.5creedmoor. When shooting less common cartridges, especially with newer bullets and newer powders, sometimes its difficult to find load data for your specific combination.

It seems like Hornady hasn't developed rl26/212eldx load data for 300wm yet. Unless someone can please prove me wrong and post it? Alliant doesn't have data for my combination.

"...completely different weight Hornady bullet while ignoring velocity..."
210gr plastic tipped/boat tail long range hunting bullet (Accubond long range) vs.
212gr plastic tipped/boat tail long range hunting bullet (Hornady ELD-X). They seem pretty similar to me...

"...ignoring velocity..."

Did you miss the part where I stopped shooting and didn't proceed to my next hotter loads due to my high velocity readings?