Advice needed

[LB]

It absence of factory instructions....I'd be sure and work the barreled action into the stock evenly until you are sure it is bottomed out. Then tighten the front screw TIGHT. The rear tang should not be torqued. After snugging, and after the front recoil lug is tight, no more than half to three quarters of a turn, additional. If I had to guess, five to ten pounds? There may be a number of better plans out there, but that's how I do it.

Good hunting. LB

 

[Richard338]

Jaeger476,
There is a difference between primers sliding in noticably more easily, and being too loose so as to have to replace the brass.
If the primer is too loose, the gas could leak and cut the bolt face.
Do you see any leakage? brown/black around primer pocket?
Some of my best (accurate) loads will loosen the primer somewhat after 4 firings, but not need replacing until after 8.
A good test is to see if you can deprime (after priming and thinking it loose) just by hand, not with the press.
If it really goes in like butter after only 4 firing, check for other pressure signs. On the other hand if you buy 200 brass and get 1000 accurate shots, that's half the barrel life anyway, and might be acceptable to you. It depends if you can find an accurate load at lower pressures.

 

[LB]

an afterthought: check your action screws, and make sure they have been properly tightened, and in the correct sequence. Never hurts to check these things. LB

 

[JR]

There is a possibility they did not cut the crown far enough back, if it was pitting at the muzzle...Also, they relapped the barrel...Not sure why or how this was done, there is a good chance you can 'flare' the muzzle end, or chamber end, whereever the lap is reversed...But I digress because wasn't in the shop when it was done, and I'm sure they know what they're doing up there in Cantadia...wonder if they crowned before or after it was lapped..Sometimes when recrowning a factory barrel, the barrel is soooo bent it's hard to get a concentric crown, so you end up cutting more off one side then the next...Or you end up with a bit of metal burred up in the corner of the crown..I'll usually push a lap thru after the crown...Push or pull only, not push and pull..

Check velocities, watch for huge spreads, if you have your handy dandy cracker jack magnifier check the corners of the land/groove intersection, make sure they are still sharp and even...

Don't bother slugging the factory barrel, they don't come uniform..

And last but not least, have a word with PGW and not the online genies...They'll let you know what to do...I get a kick out of the guys that sit and stew all day over what ends up to be a simple solution to the problem, get home and let it out on the internet...When all you had to do was ring the smith/barrelmaker and it's sorted..Ha..Good luck mate..

JR

 

[Fiftydriver]

JR,

If you use a live piloted crown cutting tool there is no chance to get teh crown out of alignment with the axis of the bore as long as you use the correct bushing to fit the bore perfectly and use a floating reamer holder to drive teh crown cutter.

If the cutter is sharp, there will be no burrs and with the use of the correct sized bushing, it does not matter if the bore is centered in the barrel, the cutter will center of the bore perfectly anyway.

I have rarely found mild pitting in the grooves to effect accuracy over 25 shots or so. If the lands are pitted badly this can be a different case but since the rifle was shooting very well for a factory rifle, I feel the pits were a cosmetic flaw more then an accuracy flaw.

Just my opinion, as you said, I am sure the boys at PGW's had a good reason to do what they did to the barrel. Its just hard to guess about it without all the information they had when they had the barrel in front of them.

Good Shooting!!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[JR]

Kirby,

Not like I do this for a living or nothin..Have seen a barrel or two..There are things barrelmakers see that smiths don't, see...I don't trust anything that doesnt read '0' on a dial indicator, and mine come in tenths...I don't take for granted the tooling is going to work as it should unless I made the tooling myself..But yes I agree with you in the concept, it's the application...One thing is for sure, custom barrels are more pleasureable to work with than factory..

JR

 

[LB]

JR, I get the gist of your message is that the online genies, or, as I prefer; Internet Gurus,

offer advice that has no value. Well, CBS might have thought they were smarter than the bloggers that busted their expose as a hatchet job. There is a wide range of talent available, on these boards.

But anyway. To discount the assembled membership, and their opinions as worthless is not too smart. What if the shop just blew him off, and advised him to work up another load? It wouldn't be the first time someone received casual advice over the phone.

Maybe they could have fired a couple of groups with the same load that was grouping so nicely, before the alterations? Kind of a "control group". Raised flags, or not?

My personal opinion is that there is a vast resource available via the Internet, on any number of subjects, from gardening to rock climbing, and many ARE experts...actually! (myself, not included: I'm just a hobbiest)

I join you in wishing this gentleman "good luck". LB

 

[JR]

Nope,

Genies...Rub the internet bottle..Good advice for wants, but fixes go straight back to source....If they can't fix then ask around...I can guarantee you PGW isn't blowing anyone off, they are good people up there, Canada is full of nice people, and geese and big whitetail, fish too..Bring the problem to their attention immediately and I bet they will find the cure..

If customer isn't satisfied, then we as custom type gunfolk aren't doing our job...and that's our livelihood, making youse folk happy...

How long did it take you to surmise the web was the place to go for a specific gunsmithing application? about a double click...Go to the source.....especially one as reputable as Prairie Gun Works...

JR

 

[JR]

And just in case you misunderstand me,

The internet is a plethora of information, I use it every day on my application, to find out more and more...I don't know everything, just 'bout, not quite, so I use the www to chase a few things here and there and porn..I don't discount 'internet gurus' but believe me I can....A lot of experts out there don't know ****...so use the internet wisely I say..


JR

 

[JR]

Kirby,

No flames meant eh..Was in a right state yesterday, was reading what I wanted to read..

Live piloted tools yes will work for bendy factory barrels, I was reading this as floating reamer holder at the time..but no, spot on...As will crowning with adjustable chuck and spider holding the chamber end, clocked in dial indicator, and indicating tailstock..

But still not too keen on flaming a manufacturer unless I have spoken to them first and if it's not sorted..Then I will consult the genies..

JR

 

[Fiftydriver]

JR,

I totally agree with giving the manufacturer or custom shop the chance to make a problem right, always, that is how I would want my customers to treat me.

I agree 100%!

If that happens and they do not solve the problem then it is on them in my mind and they should prepare for some bad press, as I would.

Good Shooting!!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Jaeger476]

I'm a little curious about powders. To date I've only used IMR 4350, and have had excellent results with it. I know every gun is different but I'd like to know what kind of reults other people have had using IMR 4831, H4831 and H4831SC, or Reloder22. Again the caliber is 300 win mag and the bullets are 200 grain Sierre SPBT SGK's.

 

[LB]

It's hard to discount the performance of an accurate match barrel that seems to shoot every bullet and every combination of powder well. But, if you accept the theory that you should select a powder that fills the case and still offers accuracy and velocity with a given bullet weight, then your list of suitable powders gets a little shorter.

For whatever reason, I have had very satisfactory results using 100% and compressed charges of H4831 in a number of rifles from 220Swift to 300 magnums.

Of course, there are exceptions. Some people use 3031 or 4895, substantially faster powders with a lot of air space, and are happy.

I always have some IMR4350 on hand. I find it to be especially useful in 243 and 6mmRem. with certain bullet weights.

But, when you are using heavy for caliber bullets in a 300 Mag. (as Fiftydriver already mentioned) then 4350 appears to be a little on the fast side, as to burning rate. Fast powders and heavy bullets are not usually your best choice. Everything being relative.

Once you factor in your barrel length, there may be a reason to go with a faster powder? For instance, say your barrel was only 22", the slow burning 4831 might produce a huge flame of unburnt powder and no velocity advantage. The 4350 may peak in the shorter barrel, and could be the best choice, strictly considering velocity. But, if you have enough barrel length to support the H4831 burning rate, then I'd say it deserves consideration.

I personally don't use R22 in anything but 25 caliber, so can't comment on that. But, the reason is that I find H4831 to be superior in every yardstick of performance that it would just waste my time. (as you said, each rifle is different) If I were developing a load right now, (which I'm not) I would have to consider it, as well as VV and Norma powders.

To me, IMR 4350 doesn't seem to work, on paper, for your application, but if it does, who can argue? The only way to find out......after you get your other problem resolved, is on the bench.

Good hunting. LB

edit: I just noticed your other post. For what it's worth, I have always used a Win.8½ large rifle primer in 300 Winchester. The Fed 215M with a hotter spark may allow the 4350 to burn even faster, I don't know? Mag primers are a good choice for sub zero temperatures, though.

[ 09-24-2004: Message edited by: LB ]