Advice interpreting a ladder test result

[Buckreed]

There wasn't any wind at the time when I was shooting. I also thought it odd the 79.2 was the same vertical height as the rest. It was wide right and I was confident I didn't yank it. I wondered if it could have been due to max pressure?

How would inconsistent cheek weld cause the unexpected verticals? Just not getting the same sight picture every time? The stock comb height is low due to the 20 MOA scope rail, so I have an adjustable stock pack on there to raise it.

I'm curious what the speeds will be between 75-76.

I mentioned cheek weld because I have a hard time maintaining consistent pressure through the recoil on my 7mm which is less than your 300. I tend to anticipate the recoil and come up slightly allowing the stock to come up and the muzzle to go down. I'm not an expert just thought it was worth mentioning because of my experience with it.

 

[lightshooter]

I don't think this ladder is going to tell you anything. For a flat shooting magnum I think you would need to do this at greater distance. Put the magnetospeed back on and don't worry about your POI or distance. Record the speed plug it into excel generate a line graph and look for plateaus. Choose the middle charge weight in the plateau and this is your load. Then you can do the same thing for jump/jam.
Search on you tube "Satterlee loaf development". Save a ton of components and barrel life. You also don't have to have access to a 500-1000yd range.

 

[25WSM]

I use the satterlee method for mskeing bread also.
Really I do use the satterlee method and it works perfectly without fail. I've verified the method with ladder testing at the same time and they do line up with each other. I don't agree with taking the middle of the node and just using it. I have found out that my most accurate loads are always in the upper half of the node not the middle. Upper half of node always has the lowest es/sd and best accuracy. I always start my testing at the 75 percent point in the node.
Shep

 

[Mram10us]

I like 77.6. After looking again, 78.2 would be good to try. Assuming loading and shooting were perfect and the shots reflect the harmonics

 

[lightshooter]

I use the satterlee method for mskeing bread also.
Really I do use the satterlee method and it works perfectly without fail. I've verified the method with ladder testing at the same time and they do line up with each other. I don't agree with taking the middle of the node and just using it. I have found out that my most accurate loads are always in the upper half of the node not the middle. Upper half of node always has the lowest es/sd and best accuracy. I always start my testing at the 75 percent point in the node.
Shep

I agree with that as well. Also when I say the middle I don't mean the middle node/plateau for the whole experiment. You can get multiple nodes over the whole range of charge weights, and you can decide which node you want to refine; slow, medium, fast... what I do after I choose the node (plateau) I want to work with, I'll load the low charge to high charge in smaller increments (.1 grains, the initial test is usually .2-.3 gr) then shoot it again and look for the plateau within the plateau.
The idea behind the middle charge of the node is so when you shoot in varying temperatures or if you aren't throwing exact powder weights when loading, you'll have little latitude.

 

[C.O. Shooter]

If you have access to longer range, repeat the test at say 600, 800, or 1000 yards.

 

[charliehorse27]

The rifle does have a muzzle brake on it, thankfully. It kicks about as much as a 243. I tried doing the seating depth test initially. I loaded 3 each at intervals of .040 up to .120 off starting at .005 off the lands with a mild charge. It seemed to prefer nearly touching the rifling, and printed 3/4 MOA initially, and in additional testing fine tuning it a bit more.

The rifle (or the shooter, perhaps) has never been lights out incredible with anything I've tried. The Berger factory match ammo with the same bullet printed 5 shot groups just a touch below 3/4 MOA both times I tried it. 212 ELD-X with H1000 was just under 1 MOA, so I thought I'd toy with the Berger 215's it seemed to have a little more taste for.

I don't have access to anything longer than 380 yards, so that was the best I could do for distance at the moment.

I might try exploring the 75-76 node with 3 shot groups. I'm reluctant to strap on the Magnetospeed for it because it never seems to shoot as well when that thing is hanging off it. We have a 2 year old and 6 week old babe at home, so it might be a little while before I get the opportunity to try again.

I appreciate everyone's advice trying to make sense of it!

 

[charliehorse27]

Is the Satterlee method obscured by variables in ES/SD though? Since it's based completely on speed readings?

 

[lightshooter]

I use the satterlee method for mskeing bread also.

Ha! I just got that. I had not noticed the typo.

 

[Mram10us]

380 will still give you good info about nodes. If that is all you got, use it. Many great loads were found before the satterlee method and the use of chronographs. They are a great tool, but do what looks the best on paper

 

[TRG65]

If you dig up the interview the 6.5 guys do with Scott Satterlee a few years ago, he says it isn't a method you should use unless you are confident in your reloading techniques and capabilities. It is my starting point for load development now. I don't do the 1 shot version that Satterlee talked about, but I use 3 shots and look at the change between and the SD for those loads. A load with a low sd in between charges with poor sd tended to be another indicator of a node. Then I started using the 6.5 guys spreadsheet and it does all the math for you. After I find the node area relying entirely on velocity, then I start looking at seating depth and group sizes to tune. Like someone said before, doing your group size before can be handy, but I've done it both ways and gotten to the same point. Also, I agree with the magnetospeed changing things, so I just shoot for pure velocity and then tune with group testing around the velocity node. Right now I'm going to start working on a 338 WM load. I'm going to try using OnTargetTDS after I do the Satterlee test. I'm also going to test neck tension with the on target software.

 

[lightshooter]

380 will still give you good info about nodes. If that is all you got, use it. Many great loads were found before the satterlee method and the use of chronographs. They are a great tool, but do what looks the best on paper

Yeah but the problem is with the target the OP posted is just about every load looks good. I've had great luck with the ladder method at 300 yds. with standard cartridges (not flat shooting magnums) and round robins at 100 yds, but it to at least 2 times ammo to arrive at the same conclusion as the satterlee method. Just saying you can save a lot of headache, money and barrel life, if you confident in your reloading methods.

 

[L.Sherm]

He can only shoot at 380 max. Ladders do work better farther out but if that's all you got then that's all you got. Hes definitely got something good going on in the 75-76 range and that's were I would definitely start.
You can do all the graphs and choreographing you want the paper target dont lie.

 

[Mram10us]

Yeah but the problem is with the target the OP posted is just about every load looks good. I've had great luck with the ladder method at 300 yds. with standard cartridges (not flat shooting magnums) and round robins at 100 yds, but it to at least 2 times ammo to arrive at the same conclusion as the satterlee method. Just saying you can save a lot of headache, money and barrel life, if you confident in your reloading methods.

I hear ya, but the loads don't all look good to me. The top and bottom of the curves have worked very well for me. Like all these threads, we all get to great loads different ways. Bryan litz method of load development cracks me up, with all the things most of us put ourselves thru