interpreting ladder test - need help!

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by dmax1800, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    I need help interpreting a ladder test result. I don't know of a better place to get help. As some of you may have noticed, I have asked a lot of questions. I'm new to this and the only way for me to learn is to ask questions. So please bear with me.

    I did a ladder test with a 270 win at 200 yards. Yes, I know that a typical ladder test is done at 1000 yards, but both of my gunsmiths said to do it at 200 yards, so I did.

    Where are the nodes in this test??? No 2 and 3??? No 5,6,7 and 8???
    Should I consider that #4 is a flier and disregard???

    As a side note, I used some of the same powder charges as no 4 thru 8 and same bullets to hit a 5x7 gong at 450 yards 90% of the time.

    HELP!!!

    Sep_2_ladder_270win.jpg
     
  2. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    What powder and how many grains for each load? Brass and primer? Buller type and weight? There is rarely a time you can give too little data.

    I also shoot my ladders at 200 so I wouldn't worry there.

    There are probably nodes at 2-3 and 6/7/8, with 7 or 8 a possible flyer? However, load data would help a bit to point you in the right direction.
     

  3. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    Powder is H4350. Brass is Norma. WLRM primers. Barnes 130 grain TTSX.

    1 - 52 grains
    2 - 52.5
    3 - 53
    4 - 53.5
    5 - 54
    6 - 54.5
    7 - 55
    8 - 55.5
     
  4. rcairflr

    rcairflr Well-Known Member

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    Reload 5 each of (3, 6 & 8). Shoot 5 round group of each and see how they do.
     
  5. rcairflr

    rcairflr Well-Known Member

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    BTW, there are very few of us who have access to a 1000 yard range to shoot ladders. So I''m not sure who told you a ladder should be done at 1000 yards.
     
  6. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    I thought the idea of a ladder test was to find a node where there was not much vertical spread with incremental powder charges (and velocity increases)? I don't understand why you suggested shooting 3, 6 and 8? Just because they were very close together???
    There is a sticky describing a ladder test and it suggests shooting at 1000 yards.
     
  7. azsugarbear

    azsugarbear Well-Known Member

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    Typically, you shoot three targets when shooting a ladder test so that you can confirm nodes (or flyers for that matter). Do you have them, or did you shoot just this one target?
     
  8. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    I shot only 1 target.
     
  9. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    You can do it with just 1 ladder if you wish. I've done it that way.

    I would load up 3 rounds each of 6, 7 and 8 and give those a try. Generally higher end loads tend to be more accurate but that's not always the case. If you think #7 might be a flier then it's worth looking here.

    Also, H4831 and H4831SC tend to be "the" powder for the 270 Win, especially in 130gr bullets. If you e-mail Barnes they will send you a pdf with more powders than just the 2 listed on their website. Unfortunately the load data on their website is quite limited.

    Are you using a chronograph?
     
  10. azsugarbear

    azsugarbear Well-Known Member

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    It's very risky drawing conclusions from a single target. A flyer, small change in wind, or slight increase in the powder charge of a single round can skew the results of a single target. I think that is what you may have going on here.

    Usually, nodes are pretty easy to spot. A second target confirms the results of the first. You have a couple of options: #1) Use your existing target and assume a node in #6-#8 range and confirm by shooting groups of three rounds. If this is a node, all three loads should group well and all should print in the same area of the target. Or #2) re-shoot your ladder using at least two targets.
     
  11. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    Doc,
    I can't find H4831 or SC anywhere. If I could find H4831, I would try it.
    Yes, I was using a chrono, a Magnetospeed to be exact.
    I've got a Barnes manual with all the powders.
     
  12. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    You don't want to use anything attached to a barrel you're load developing with.
    Go by charge amount alone for ladder.

    Also, have you determined best seating depth yet?
    If not, and if you're at bad seating, ladder results can get pretty hard to determine.

    Are you prefouling 1st?
    Are you timing your shots?
    What scope are you using?
     
  13. dmax1800

    dmax1800 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't played with seating depth. I'll do that to fine tune the grouping after I find a node.
    Yes, I'm prefouling before shooting the ladder.
    I'm shooting a shot, then loading a single shot, getting lined up and firing.
    On my 270 I'm using a Nikon 4.5-14x40 scope with a BDC reticle.
     
  14. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    I find I have to wait 3-5 minutes between shots to keep the barrel from getting hotter than I'd like, even with my 270. And yes, I time them.