Accuracy warranty?

[J E Custom]

4:40PM, think I'll quit early today! Ahhhh! The accuracy guarantee. I checked around to see what others were doing and choose those that I felt were relevant. I guarantee 1/2" with proper handloads, 3/4" with factory, if I supply the barrel and do the stock work/bedding, too. If the customer hands me or ships me the barrel, no guarantee. I don't know how it's been handled or whether it's been used as a lever. If my customer has the barrel shipped to me by the maker, I'll honor the guarantee. Some brands of barrels I just won't use, regardless. If the customer wants to do his own stock work/ bedding, no guarantee. A rifle is a "system", not just parts that have been assembled. Take the finest machine work and "stuff/cram" it into a stock and you may not get the results you desire. I don't care how many rifles you say you have bedded. I keep a lot of factory ammo in the shop. Some will ask the price. The ammo isn't for sale, it's there for test firing, for chamber and accuracy of factory ammo. I handload 'batches' at a time and use a known load straight from a loading manual. It'll tell me what I need to know, within a few rounds. With todays barrels and methods it's not hard to meet the guarantee. I don't load ammo for anyone except myself. I operate under a 01 Dealers License. I will forward loading data if it is requested as it is all 'published' data from a loading manual. The customer needs to do any of the 'fine tuning' a handload may require. If he wants me to do that, it's at my hourly rate,,,,, time + materials. I find most accuracy problems are shooter related. Poor reloading practice, improper or lack of cleaning, expecting all factory ammo to shoot the same, or, I'm sorry to say, just don't know how to shoot. I've met those who think the rifle does it all. No rifle will stop a flinch. No rifle preforms well when its trigger is jerked instead of squeezed. A 10 1/2lb. .300 Ultra Mag requires different handling from a bench rest than a 17lb. .22PPC. There is such a thing a 'muzzle flip' and the bullet won't land where you were last looking. I use what I call "shop glass" for the scope when test firing if the customer doesn't supply a scope. My "shop glass" is a 12 x 40 Leupold with fine crosshairs. Why anyone would mount a 'cheap' glass on a custom is beyond me, but I have, and more than just a couple of times. Any "guarantee" has to work both ways. Too harsh? I've got work backed-up buy 1-3 months (at times, longer), depending on the time of the year, and that condition has existed for the past 15+ years. If we can't agree, well........... I now provide the test target as my 'proof'. After a rifle leaves me, I no longer have control of the ammo it's fed or the care it is given. If the customer complains right away of accuracy 'issues', I'll gladly look it over and test fire it again. If he decides a few hundred rounds or a month later it doesn't shoot like it did when it was new, well.... If it's something I've done or could have/should have done better, no charge. If it's a problem of the customers' own making, time + materials. I usually pass along a lot of info to my customer. If he decides to ignore that info, there's really not much I can do about it. In the past, I've "given away" countless hours of my time to those who just "don't know". (that Hawkeye Bore scope is a heck of a tattle-tale)

Very well said !!!!!

J E CUSTOM

 

[stenger]

I have been asked to develope loads and test fire rifles for accuracy after completion. I see where the customer is coming from but it's to time consuming. I can't load and test for accuracy every rifle that is built. If you build the rifle correctly it will shoot to your accuracy expectations. Although I am not sure how some warranty large hunting rifles under half a MOA when the caliber is not very inherently accurate to begin with. I still haven't seen a 338 Lapua shoot .25 everytime it goes to the range but I have seen them shoot .25 on an occasion. So I think smith's are being a little misleading and a customer that expects this kinda accuracy is not very educated in rifle accuracy. I have found that educating a customer on rifle accuracy and what causes accuracy gains and problems is the best solution. With all that being said I will waranty 1/2 moa with me shooting it and custom loads for the first 250 rounds. I have never had one come back for accuracy issues!!

 

[J E Custom]

I have been asked to develope loads and test fire rifles for accuracy after completion. I see where the customer is coming from but it's to time consuming. I can't load and test for accuracy every rifle that is built. If you build the rifle correctly it will shoot to your accuracy expectations. Although I am not sure how some warranty large hunting rifles under half a MOA when the caliber is not very inherently accurate to begin with. I still haven't seen a 338 Lapua shoot .25 everytime it goes to the range but I have seen them shoot .25 on an occasion. So I think smith's are being a little misleading and a customer that expects this kinda accuracy is not very educated in rifle accuracy. I have found that educating a customer on rifle accuracy and what causes accuracy gains and problems is the best solution. With all that being said I will waranty 1/2 moa with me shooting it and custom loads for the first 250 rounds. I have never had one come back for accuracy issues!!

Just a comment on big bores and accuracy. (Not to start an argument). I have found that the big bores are easier to get below 1/2 MOA than lots of the small calibers.

Starting with the .177 and going up, the SDs are very hard to get below 10. because of the bullet weight (It is effected buy everything) the bigger the bullet is the less it is affected by everything.

With accuracy normally measured @ 100 to 200 yards and group size to eliminate as much human
error, the big bullets just do very well.

The best group I have ever shot was a .034 @ 100 yards, and that was with a 416 BUFF.

I have 4 other hunting rifles that will consistently shoot under 1/10 MOA (.053 to .092) all of these calibers are 7mms, .308s and .338s.

I admire you for giving that much guarantee, But I have no way to know what a person will or can do once it is out of my control. It scares me what some people will doo, or have done to there rifles.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Happy Hunting

J E CUSTOM

 

[Wachsmann]

Accuracy warranty....
So here a question...or maybe a statement. If a gun is built right and quality componets are used and I don't mean as cheep as you can find then I would think a quality custom built rifle on a blueprinted Remington 700 should shoot 1/2 moa with most over the counter rounds. Reason being is I have seen this and have shot a friend of mines rifle that does this with no problem. We shot the federal classics through it (its a 308 win). You could cover them all up with a dime. We shot some whinchester silver tips ammo 168 grain and same deal. We shot what the previous owner told us to use which was the federal match grade ammo and it shoots 1 ragged hole. Maybe this is not the usual but I would think this is something thats not out of the norm either. The prior owner who had the rifle built shot the gun 3 time and took it back to the smith and for some reason he did not like the way the barrel was cleaning up at the crown so he cut it back to 23 inches and re-crowned it again. Apparently the second time he got it right. The owner gave us the smiths target and he gave us some targets he had shot with the federal match ammo. I'll be the first to say its probably the best shooting gun I have shot since it shoot over the counter rounds this well. The gun started out as a Remington 700 I believe it was a police model something that looked like a sendero but with a greenish tint stock. The action was blueprinted and it had a bartlein barrel on it. the stock had also been bedded with the barrel being floated. It has a jewel trigger at 1lb and a timney trigger. The day we were out shooting the timney trigger was in the gun. I told my buddy you probably should start thinking about shooting matches. Gun was bought for 2200 dollars. Smith lives up in Pocatello Idaho. Not sure his business name though. one other thing about this gun...its polished to a mirror finish. the bolt is flutted and it looks like the inside of the barrel has the same mirror finish. sweet looking gun and shoots sweeter.

 

[stenger]

1/2 moa factory ammo is a tough call. Sometimes they shoot and sometimes they don't. I have no problem saying 1/2 moa with hand loads but factory is pushing it a little in my opinion.

 

[stenger]

You also have to remember that not all barrels even the best custom barrels are not created equal.