Accuracy issue...help! I possibly know what is going wrong.

[Bigeclipse]

This will be a longish thread but I want to give full detail of what is going on and then see what you all think. This has been a very frustrating situation which may be my fault.
Here goes.........

Lets start with my background. I have been shooting/hunting for 6 years and feel decently confident in my form as a shooter. I have shot about 7 different rifle calibers in 10 different guns so I have felt heavy and light recoil. I typically used to shoot at our range which has nice bench setups but recently moved to a house that I can shoot out my back yard.

The issue started this past February when I purchased my wife a new rifle. I got her the savage lady hunter (which is a wood stock that has pillars but is not bedded). The closest range is over 40 minutes away so I decided ill just shoot it to 50 yards off the back of my quad to get it sighted in. I admit I did not get ultracomfortable or relaxed in form, and I only have lower grade ammo (Hornady American Whitetail) BUT it was only 50 yards so I said what the heck. It shot TERRIBLE. We are talking 3-4inch groups at 50 yards. Could it have been me or the setup...possibly but I have shot quite a lot and hunted quite a lot and swore it was the rifle. I called savage. they said send it back. They then shipped it back to me they were able to get 1.25in groups at their range so they did not replace anything. Well...I said ok Savage must be honest but who knows so I started to research the rifle. Found out that the Lady hunter rifle comes with plastic bottom metal which could impact accuracy because one of the action screws goes through it. I called up and ordered all new metal bottom metal and installed it to 50in/lbs front and back. Well life got away from me so I did not shoot it again until yesterday. This time I purchased 3 different kinds of ammo (2 higher end ones). Went to my homemade range. setup and started shooting. it shot TERRIBLE (8in groups at 100 yards). Pulled out my wife's other rifle which is heavy barreled 7mm-08 and shot .5MOA groups. Went back to the new rifle and back to terrible groups. So now I'm fuming again. Thought maybe it is the scope. Took the scope off and put on a known good scope...still bad. I said to myself...ill call savage again see what they can do. For now, at least her primary rifle is working well so now ill sight in my primary rifle for the season. pull my trusty 3006 out and bamn...terrible groups. This 3006 is the type rifle that never shoots amazing groups but also never shoots worse than 1.5MOA with any ammo. It is my go-to ultra-light weight woods rifle (rifle is 6.5lbs without scope). Well that got me thinking. So I took the rest off the shooting table and shot free-handed and bam...back to the trusty 1.5in groups. The shooting table is a quick setup table with a spongy surface. Couple that with the adjustable rest I typically use and I think I was getting major side-to-side/bounce movements on each shot. Below is a link to the type of table I have. Could it really be that? I did not get a chance to go back and re-shoot the savage...but could a rest/table really cause enough bounce/movement to cause 7inch groups at 100 yards? Again, I am no expert shooter but at the range I never had this happen...but I am shooting off very nice shooting tables there.

Secondly, lets say the rifle is truly a bad performer (I'm talking 3+in groups) shouldn't Savage make that right? I get they have no accuracy garranty but that is really bad. I fear if this is the case I will need to have the rifle bedded and re-barreled. This was only supposed to be a 300 yard rifle so really no need for spectacular accuracy but anything above 2+in...is terrible in my book. Any other thoughts?


http://www.discountramps.com/kill-s...MIwomnls2O1gIVWlYNCh0HtwdOEAQYBCABEgKy6PD_BwE

 

[Canhunter35]

Get some bags, front and rear, steady the rifle properly on the ground in prone position try again. The rifle is designed for a smaller stature person, you need to compensate by having it really steady when ur zeroing it.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Get some bags, front and rear, steady the rifle properly on the ground in prone position try again. The rifle is designed for a smaller stature person, you need to compensate by having it really steady when ur zeroing it.

I do used bags...actually I use a pro type adjustable front rest and rear bag combo. My thought was that the rifle was bouncing so high out of the rest due to the lightweight pencil barrels and with the shaky shooting table I was using. Could a bad table really cause that to happen along with bounce? I thought as long as the crosshairs were on your target when trigger fired that the bullet exits the barrel before any bounce occurs? I will try from prone position and see what happens. Unfortunately wont happen for a few days due to bad weather and I work late.

 

[Dosh]

Big, haven't seen a Savage shoot that poorly. I'm sure a very small percentage are sold that do. Even with the 20" barrel this Savage should be MOA. For $800+ I'd demand a better grouping. I'm sure you meant 50 inch pounds on the torque, perhaps back off in 5" lb increments and bed the action. Obvious the shooting table is not working if offhand is much more accurate. All the Savages I've bedded have shot better along with free floating the barrel. Good luck

 

[Bigeclipse]

Big, haven't seen a Savage shoot that poorly. I'm sure a very small percentage are sold that do. Even with the 20" barrel this Savage should be MOA. For $800+ I'd demand a better grouping. I'm sure you meant 50 inch pounds on the torque, perhaps back off in 5" lb increments and bed the action. Obvious the shooting table is not working if offhand is much more accurate. All the Savages I've bedded have shot better along with free floating the barrel. Good luck

the offhand shot was with my known good rifle that shot bad off of that shaky bench which caused me to think that the bench coupled with the terrible bounce I was getting might have been the original reason the other rifle was shooting so bad which would mean not Savage's fault but my own. I guess testing from prone may prove that point. Again, I am certainly no expert but I KNOW I can shoot MOA or better if given the proper rest...which maybe that is what was going on here and not the rifle (I Hope). I just figured id ask her if anyone back in their early days of shooting...got a bad group due to bad rest/bounce or anything else and NOT due to the rifle.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Big, haven't seen a Savage shoot that poorly. I'm sure a very small percentage are sold that do. Even with the 20" barrel this Savage should be MOA. For $800+ I'd demand a better grouping. I'm sure you meant 50 inch pounds on the torque, perhaps back off in 5" lb increments and bed the action. Obvious the shooting table is not working if offhand is much more accurate. All the Savages I've bedded have shot better along with free floating the barrel. Good luck

and yes I did mean 50in/lbs. Thanks and I corrected!

 

[Joefrazell]

I second shooting prone off bags. If you don't have a front bag grab a old pillow and roll it up. You could even duct tape it if you want to. Anyways, get down on the ground and get solid. Shoot at a small target dot or whatever. 1/2" targets at largest. As long as you can see it through the scope. Sometimes a square works better as you can see part of the bullseye in each quadrant of the scope. Make certain it's not you. Did you try all 3 different loads?

 

[Bigeclipse]

I second shooting prone off bags. If you don't have a front bag grab a old pillow and roll it up. You could even duct tape it if you want to. Anyways, get down on the ground and get solid. Shoot at a small target dot or whatever. 1/2" targets at largest. As long as you can see it through the scope. Sometimes a square works better as you can see part of the bullseye in each quadrant of the scope. Make certain it's not you. Did you try all 3 different loads?

Ok, well I did not get to shoot prone (it was raining so I didn't want to get muddy) but I did get to try something. I used a front bag instead of my shooting rest and I also held the front of the rifle a bit harder with my left hand and low and behold it is grouping nicely (<1in). That is just so crazy to me that this rifle was bouncing that bad off my other rest causing huge groups. Everything I have read stated that the bullet should be leaving the barrel before the rifle actually recoils...however, that is certainly not the case for this rifle.

 

[squirrelslayer]

I bought a Mossberg last year for my grandsons first hunt. I got a .243 for light recoil (he's 10). I shot it with the cheap scope that came on it and had 8-10 in groups @ 100 yds. I changed out the scope/mounts with a known good setup and shot the same. I checked the free float - bore -torque -everything I could think of. Bottom line - I bought some cheap 85 grain stuff (I was initially shooting premium 100 grain) and the groups dropped to .8 in. I checked the twist rate (with a cleaning rod and tape measure - it was 1in10. This twist will not stabilize anything above 90 grain in .243. A lot of time/money/patience wasted (NOT - I learned a valuable lesson - know your twist or twist your knickers). Just something to check.

 

[Bigeclipse]

I bought a Mossberg last year for my grandsons first hunt. I got a .243 for light recoil (he's 10). I shot it with the cheap scope that came on it and had 8-10 in groups @ 100 yds. I changed out the scope/mounts with a known good setup and shot the same. I checked the free float - bore -torque -everything I could think of. Bottom line - I bought some cheap 85 grain stuff (I was initially shooting premium 100 grain) and the groups dropped to .8 in. I checked the twist rate (with a cleaning rod and tape measure - it was 1in10. This twist will not stabilize anything above 90 grain in .243. A lot of time/money/patience wasted (NOT - I learned a valuable lesson - know your twist or twist your knickers). Just something to check.

savage says it is 1in9.5 which should stabilize 140s no problem...

 

[bigngreen]

There is always recoil before the bullet leaves the barrel, how you interact with the stock and how the stock moves on a rest all contribute to accuracy.

 

[Joefrazell]

Is it a free floating barrel?

 

[Gord0]

There is always recoil before the bullet leaves the barrel, how you interact with the stock and how the stock moves on a rest all contribute to accuracy.

100% this! I can take my 300win mag and position it in a slightly different spot on my shoulder and shoot 3" groups at 100. Move it over on the shoulder to my normal spot and shoot under .5"

 

[Canhunter35]

Shoot from straight behind the gun then cock yourself at an angle. It will seem your poi changed but it's simply how the guns recoiling...which is why it's good to practice different positions. Hunting rarely lets us shoot from our favourite position