6.5 CM reloading issues....

[freediver111]

So while I'm not the most experienced reloader, I'm not a complete newbie. This issue has me scratching my head a little though.

I'm using Lapua brass, all once or twice fired, 47.2 gr. RL26, CCI450's, COAL 2.855", 0.02" off the lands, and Hornady ELD-X 143's.

So my buddy and I hit the range yesterday afternoon. A little on the cold side and moderate winds. Check zero, good, start shooting 600-1,000. Noticed some weird shots hitting low, then without adjusting I'd be right on at 1,000. Decided to re-check zero at 100. Shoot two and they're a touch low, but pretty good, then shoot a third and it's way high. Around 1.5-2" high. Shoot again and high, shoot again and back down to my first 2 that were a touch low but not bad. WTH!

I also had 2 FTF, which is a first for me. Get home and check things out. Not the scope or the mounts, those are solid. Pulled the bullets from the FTF rounds and a clump of powder was stuck at the bottom in each. Ok, I do recall rushing case prep and didn't do the best cleaning job, so maybe some case lube media was left.

One thing to note is my neck tension is terrible. I'm using RCBS FL dies and I'm going to switch to Redding Type S for sure. I measured the bullets and they're 0.263", where my case necks are being re-sized to 0.257". That seems like a lot of tension.

Any other tips and tricks I should look at? We were shooting prone, which shouldn't cause any issues. I'm using the RCBS seating die as well, and check my seatings and they're all pretty spot on. Slight variations, but minor.

Also, I know some of you might thinks it's powder weight variations, but it's not. I measure each charge and trickle up to 47.2. Using a RCBS hand scale and check zero after every 50 rounds. I would be shocked if it's a powder charge variation. I'm meticulous in that aspect.

Can neck tension cause crazy jumps in velocity? What other issues could it be? Inconsistent seating depths? Should I also move to a Redding seating die?

Thanks for any insight!

 

[Barrelnut]

Has this load and component combination been rock solid up to now? With the wild velocity swings, and FTF's it sounds like the powder column was contaminated or possible primer issue, or light strike on the primer.

 

[freediver111]

Has this load and component combination been rock solid up to now? With the wild velocity swings, and FTF's it sounds like the powder column was contaminated or possible primer issue, or light strike on the primer.

Primers are good. The FTF rounds had perfect strikes. When I pull them, that's when I saw both had a clump of powder stuck to the bottom.

I just started using the DIY lanolin case lube. One thing I noticed is that it tends to leave a residue. I'm not using much lube, just 2-3 squirts in a ziploc with 50 pieces of brass inside. Because of the residue, I rinse the brass in alcohol after. Normally also tumble them in walnut, but due to time constraints skipped that step this time. Either way, I definitely had some cases that were contaminated (obviously).

Do you think thats the major issue with all these flyers? I had great luck with this load before, just having fits with the latest batch. Still think neck tension might be worth exploring.

 

[Barrelnut]

Well it sounds like the load was performing well before the new case lube was used. So the new lube with and slight change in case prep points to the cause.

I personally have never experienced those sort of velocity swings due to neck tension. The RCBS dies do overwork the brass though and I would not want to do that with my Lapua brass. I keep my brass separated by the number of firings on it. The neck tension seems to change as the brass has more firings on it. So once fired brass will have slightly different neck tension that twice fired etc. Using the Redding bushing dies and keeping brass sorted by number of firings would help the necks a lot.

If you run the loads sized with the RCBS dies and the Redding dies over a chrony, hopefully you will be able to see more consistent velocities, from the Redding dies, in the form of better ES/SD. That would be final proof that the change was worth it. And justify more range time, that's always my goal anyway. LOL. Good Luck.

 

[AZShooter]

You said you: "I'm not using much lube, just 2-3 squirts in a ziploc with 50 pieces of brass inside."

I think that is your issue. The lube is getting to places where you don't want it. Why not stick to adding lube to the outside of the case only? Not that much more time to do it and then you know you are not possibly contaminating the inside of the case.

As to the RCBS FL die. Try comparing loaded round's OD and bullet diameter. I would suggest the difference will be approx. .003"

I am wondering about your measurement tool as you said the ELD-X is .263" Should be very close to .264" plus or minus a few ten thousandths of an inch not a full thousandth.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

With POI changing that much I would check every mounting point on the rifle with a FAT wrench and verify torque. I have chased this kind of problem to the point of going nuts thinking it is something wrong with the ammo only to finally check the rifle and find out it was a loose pic rail or mounting screw or mag box touching the action etc. Don't rule out a scope issue. Without vel data from the session there is no way to know that it was an ammo issue. Every I have had this kind of issue it has always been something loose and you can't find it until you put the torque wrench on it. That is if it is a rifle that shot well before and then suddenly went gunny bags.

I was helping a guy this fall try to figure out why his Proof built rifle would not shoot anything. Turned out to be his pic rail. Tighten it and it would shoot .5" group at 200y but go nuts after 3-4 shots. The pic rail would be loose again. Not loose enough to see or feel, about a 1/16 of a turn on a couple of the screws. He needed to bed the rail and a little loctite on the screws and good to go.

I am not sure about the squirt of lube in a bag thing. I am with AZ on this too.

Hope you find it.

Steve

 

[coop2564]

You said you: "I'm not using much lube, just 2-3 squirts in a ziploc with 50 pieces of brass inside."

I think that is your issue. The lube is getting to places where you don't want it. Why not stick to adding lube to the outside of the case only? Not that much more time to do it and then you know you are not possibly contaminating the inside of the case.

As to the RCBS FL die. Try comparing loaded round's OD and bullet diameter. I would suggest the difference will be approx. .003"

I am wondering about your measurement tool as you said the ELD-X is .263" Should be very close to .264" plus or minus a few ten thousandths of an inch not a full thousandth.

This ^ lube is getting inside case causing lumps and making your FPS and pressure go all over the place.

 

[dsculley]

Ditch the spray lube and get some Lee lube. It works better and is more convenient. Put a small dollop in a ziploc bag or a plastic container and agitate well to spread the lube. If you try this, you will initially use too much lube.

I know the alcohol/lanolin has been highly promoted, but I still find the Lee lube better. Lee lube is Iloform PS 700 made by Castrol. It was designed for and is used in the metal drawing industry.

 

[freediver111]

The more I think about it, the more I think lube inside that didn't get flushed out his a major issue on this batch.

The pic rail is bedded, all screws were wiped down with alcohol prior to mounting, Fat Wrench used to torque things to spec, loctite used, fingernail polish used over ring screws.....The scope and the mounting is not the issue. I just went over everything the week before.

The lanolin lube is new to me, and to be honest, I'm not really digging it. I find it hard to get all cases well lubed or at least consistently lubed. Plus I find it a pain when the stuff gets everywhere and is PITA to clean.

 

[dsculley]

Try the Lee Lube method. Use a smaller dollop than you think you need. No mixing, no oily mess, Lee lube is water soluble and wipes off easily. I usually lube 20 - 25 cases at a time in a ziploc bag. You can do more per batch if you wish, I just like to do relatively small batches. I use a portable drill to spin my cases when trimming. While I have the case in the holder, I spin it while wiping it with a microfiber cloth. That is the extent of my case cleaning.

 

[wboregon]

Am I the only one here who applies lube by hand to each case??? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with every one saying they just dump some lube in a bag and let it go where ever. I don't even like lubing the outside of the neck as lube build up has dented shoulders on my cases before...

 

[freediver111]

Try the Lee Lube method. Use a smaller dollop than you think you need. No mixing, no oily mess, Lee lube is water soluble and wipes off easily. I usually lube 20 - 25 cases at a time in a ziploc bag. You can do more per batch if you wish, I just like to do relatively small batches. I use a portable drill to spin my cases when trimming. While I have the case in the holder, I spin it while wiping it with a microfiber cloth. That is the extent of my case cleaning.

I actually have some that I have yet to use. Given to me in a box of reloading stuff someone was dumping out. I'll give it a shot.

 

[Barrelnut]

Am I the only one here who applies lube by hand to each case??? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with every one saying they just dump some lube in a bag and let it go where ever. I don't even like lubing the outside of the neck as lube build up has dented shoulders on my cases before...

They are on the crazy pills not you.

 

[Rick Richard]

Am I the only one here who applies lube by hand to each case??? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with every one saying they just dump some lube in a bag and let it go where ever. I don't even like lubing the outside of the neck as lube build up has dented shoulders on my cases before...

I apply Imperial lube by hand to each case and have never had an issue. I get it on my fingers and just rub the case between them since I have to handle the case anyway to resize.