More reloading issues

[dino foss]

I need some advice on my 338 lapua savage, After I tried to chamber some resized brass after being used once I could not get the brass to chamber smoothly unless I rotated the brass to the right position and only then it would chamber smoothly.
Here are some pics of some possible issues,

Here is a pic of new brass never fired.

here is a pic of once fired brass after resizing.

Here is a pic of one half of an inked piece

here is a pic of the other half

I have a bad feeling about this one, the factory ammo always loads perfectly, I have been using hornady ammo and brass. Im hoping that its just the tight tolerances the savage has and crappy brass that is creating this problem? I have gone over the die setup and Im sure Im good there ,I cant tell yet if I have a bent die. When I inked the shoulder and chambered it there was no sign of any issues there. Any advice would be great especially if its good news. Thanks.

 

[ZSteinle]

Sizer die set to over cam?

 

[Mikecr]

Have you tried chambering fired brass that hasn't been sized?

 

[dino foss]

Have you tried chambering fired brass that hasn't been sized?

Yes I have and it does the same thing just a little stiffer.

 

[406pat]

I've heard of a few people having troubles with Hornady .338 brass. It was my understanding that they were using brass with a web similar in thickness to the parent case (.416 Rigby) while Lapua actually modified the internal case dimensions for a stronger web. I heard that Hornady had fixed the problem with their new manufacturing process but I think this was fairly recent and I don't believe enough time has passed to purge all of the old cases from supply.
(Open to correction, this is just what I've heard through the grapevine)

Maybe you have the old brass and it's stretching more on one side than the other?

With that said, I'd try a piece or two of Lapua or Norma brass and do the same process of firing once and then marking up with the Sharpie.

At the same time, you might want to get some Cerrosafe and make a cast of your chamber and check it on a concentricity gauge.

Those two tests should pretty well tell you if it's the brass or the chamber.

 

[Mikecr]

Is the fired brass oblong from circular form?
Is the chamber centered in the barrel?

 

[dino foss]

Is the fired brass oblong from circular form?
Is the chamber centered in the barrel?

Its hard to tell all I have is a mic go by.I have measured a possible .001 or .002 difference on the resized brass which I guess would make it oblong. I have had brass from my 300 that showed similar pressure signs that would make it appear oblong but its in the webing so I hope its just crappy brass and not an off chamber to barrel issue.I will have to take it to smith for that. I have ordered some cerrosafe to see if the chamber is circular. I tried to explain my issues to savage but all they cared about was if it fired factory ammo fine and if it did it was basically the end of our conversation. I am going to try some lapua brass soon and Im going to cross my fingers. thanks for your help and keep it coming because lord knows I need it.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I heard Hornady was iffy as well....... and never measure with a set of calipers unless you use the nib (cutaway) end.

I realize the inclination to use the fatter part of the jaws but it's inaccurate.

 

[dino foss]

I heard Hornady was iffy as well....... and never measure with a set of calipers unless you use the nib (cutaway) end.

I realize the inclination to use the fatter part of the jaws but it's inaccurate.

Note taken.

 

[Nimrod]

I realize the inclination to use the fatter part of the jaws but it's inaccurate.

Wrong!
A good caliper will read the same anywhere in the jaws and in fact when they do wear out it is invariably out on the end. You can check for wear by sliding the jaws together and holding them up to the light, if you can see light between the jaws they are either worn or have something between the jaws. What the OP should be using is a micrometer though.

Bob

 

[SidecarFlip]

Wrong!
A good caliper will read the same anywhere in the jaws and in fact when they do wear out it is invariably out on the end. You can check for wear by sliding the jaws together and holding them up to the light, if you can see light between the jaws they are either worn or have something between the jaws. What the OP should be using is a micrometer though.

Bob

Why?

Being a toolmaker by trade and business, I disagree with your statement (using the upper jaw for measurement). It's not proper or accepted, but then I wonder how many people really know the proper use of a micrometer......

Jaw calipers were designed primarily to remove the 'human factor' when measuring. No need to develop the proper 'feel' for thimble tension.

I'm curious as to why a micrometer should be used however.... Please elaborate....

 

[Nimrod]

Why?

Being a toolmaker by trade and business, I disagree with your statement (using the upper jaw for measurement). It's not proper or accepted, but then I wonder how many people really know the proper use of a micrometer......

Jaw calipers were designed primarily to remove the 'human factor' when measuring. No need to develop the proper 'feel' for thimble tension.

I'm curious as to why a micrometer should be used however.... Please elaborate....

Most professionals can get fairly close with a good caliper but one of the first things they teach in machinist school (or used to anyway) is not to use a caliper for anything less than .005 tolerance. There is too much spring in even a good caliper and the tendency is to "help" it out a little, I watch people that should know better wiggle a caliper every day to "help it seat". If you give a micrometer to 3 different people who know how to use it you will likely get 3 different readings on a standard, a gauge block for instance, but they will be within a tenth (.0001) or 2 of each other. Give the same three people a caliper and the readings could vary by a thousandth or 2. A micrometer is simply more accurate and in a tight chamber .0002 can make a difference, I always use a micrometer to check case head expansion, they are simply more accurate. As for using the upper jaw, grab a gauge pin and try it tomorrow, as a tool maker I'll bet you'll be surprised just how close you can get. Sorry if I came off a little abrasive in the previous post, it was not my intention.

Bob

 

[dino foss]

Ok! back to my nightmare guys. Its all about me, lol.
I decided to sand down the web area to see if this was the problem and it certainly was. The brass now chambers nice and easy, I need more advice here so I can move forward. Theres no way that all my hornady brass is that weak after being shot once is there? Is my chamber messed up? Can the barrel be out of alignment even though it fires factory ammo fine? someone please help.

 

[406pat]

I would say signs are pointing to the chamber being out of round. My only hesitation would be the aforementioned Hornady brass woes. I know of a guy (on this site actually) that manufactures a semi-auto .338 Lapua and they had issues with Hornady factory loads. If memory serves, they were getting case head separation. For my money that means the brass has the potential to be the issue so trying proven brass and casting the chamber would still be my recommendation before you make a move.

The micrometer got me thinking, if you have or know someone that has an inside mic that's small enough, that would be a good test and may tell you what you need to know. If you set the mic to depth just inside the chamber it should keep constant contact when you rotate it. It would be tough to keep the mic in line with the bore without some sort of fixture and any wobble may give a false reading, so I'd still want to do some more investigation before I declared the chamber messed up, but it might help narrow the variables down.

Just a thought.