45-70, 45-90, or 450 Marlin?

[tooth doc]

Bad advice. Those of us who reload for the 45-70 know here are THREE different levels of loads shown in any handbook worth a ****.

Use Ruger No. 1 loads in anything but a No. 1 or Siamese Mauser and you'll wreck your rifle.

they work just fine in the browning hiwall repros like the mod 86

 

[tooth doc]

I load a 405 to 2200 in my browning mod 76 falling block, with a stout load of 4064. Had to have chamber reamed to allow seating bullets out. I believe ruger number 1's and 3's are already chambered this way, hence the different loading info for these actions/rifles. Yes, they kick like a mule, esp with tbe crescent steel buttplate on the browning and ruger no 3's.

correction here, my browning is a b78. not 76

 

[Will Gray]

More on the 416/300 RUM. [From the Nosler Reloading Guide 8] The case volume of the 375 RUM is 105.2 Gr. water while the 416 Rigby is 106 Gr. water and the 416 Weatherby is 114.5 Gr. water. If you have a 26"+ barrel starting with one of the slower powders and working up I think you can get right up to the 416 Rigby velocities. (I find a lot of the reloading data to be quite conservative.) Accepting flat primers works for me but it does lead to loose primers after maybe five reloads. Loading for single shots (longer than the magazine) helps as well. Was fun to build and work up but no need in N. Louisiana and no long trips in mind.

 

[tooth doc]

Try some penetration tests with Gel blocks or wet newspaper, load them down to 1400, 1500, 1600, and 1700. Then compare the results to your 2200 FPS shoulder crackers. I guarantee the slower speed ones will penetrate at least as well, usually even better depending on the bullet. I have confirmed the results on game. You are beating the snot out of yourself for no good reason. If you don't believe it, have a read.

Garrett Cartridges Inc.

i believe you. i was much younger and less informed when i did it. was speaking more to what can be done with 45 70, not what should be done. if i wanted to do that now i would use a mono bullet

 

[tooth doc]

It's funny you load it so strong in combination with your screen name. I had the thought that I'd have broken teeth from clenching while shooting that load

lol! just sore shoulder, not much muzzle jump.

 

[CCAguns]

I agree with Dean2. I've often wondered about the accuracy effects of a 405gr .45 caliber bullet. As you increase the velocity, you also increase the spin unless that big heavy bullet starts slipping the lands. My B78 shot more accurately at 1750 fps that it did at faster velocities so I backed off.

 

[alaska]

No to 450 Marlin it was a fad and history now !
45/90 No factory ammo
Yes to 45/70 easy to reload and find brass very common especially in Alaska. You can handload it for Big Bear using Speer 350gr and Reloader 7 or IMR 4198. Suggest a good Marlin 1895 like the Guide Gun or Trapper. A lot of good modifications can be made to it like Happy Trigger and cross bolt safety delete. Warne Tactical Steel Rail for scope etc. Love my Trapper after modifications I did . Great gun for the Bush.

 

[Dean2]

So Taco - youu have had the gun long enough that it is time for an update. Loads, accuracy, how you like it, what you shot with it, pictures etc. We invested a lot of time purchase mentoring you, we need to see the results please.

 

[Tac-O]

So Taco - youu have had the gun long enough that it is time for an update. Loads, accuracy, how you like it, what you shot with it, pictures etc. We invested a lot of time purchase mentoring you, we need to see the results please.

You're right!! I haven't shot it for awhile because I've been busy doing lots of different things. It will take me a moment to find notes and any remaining targets. I'm very bad at keeping targets and target pictures.

I can say that it will shoot Missouri bullet company buffalo #1 very well with BP... About 1.5" group at 75yd. And if I remember correctly it was about the same with Hornady flat point jacketed bullets and smokeless.

It shure does make the shoulder/arm sore shooting off the bench

 

[Calvin45]

Hey all,

If a guy wants to get a lever gun in either a 45-70, 450 Marlin, or 45-90 then what are some of the benefits to each one?

I know of a few:

45-70 - plenty of loaded ammo available but it will be lower pressure. Can be handloaded to give more oomph

450 Marlin - loaded ammo to higher pressure, but the cases are probably more expensive since they're belted and doesn't seem to be as popular as the 45-70

45-90 - alot more oomph and range, if loaded with black powder. Smokeless powder supposedly will limit it's performance to 45-70 ballistics. Loaded ammo is lacking in availability and performance

What are the performance characteristics like for each in various length barrels? I'd be looking at a 22" or 24", but an 18" or 20" would be fine if the ballistics are similar to the former. What's the general range people can cleanly take elk/moose/bison when handloading?

I found a beautiful Win 1886 deluxe case hardened 45-90 that I'd love to have...

If you found a beautiful rifle you'd love to have then this whole post is just about trying to talk you out of it, convince you you don't really want it or that you want something else. You know you don't. It's a matter of the heart! . I wouldn't even dream of trying to change your heart or mind or talk you out of going for what you want! Just get the dang rifle and spare yourself the future regret of having compromised and wondering "what if…".



Dang. You might not know we're talking about rifles here!

 

[Calvin45]

I see now this was from March 2021 haha

 

[DMP25-06]

So Taco - youu have had the gun long enough that it is time for an update. Loads, accuracy, how you like it, what you shot with it, pictures etc. We invested a lot of time purchase mentoring you, we need to see the results please.

Hello Dean2 ,

I am NOT Tac-O , but you had given advice to me about .45-70 , 405gr. Hardcast bullets , loading for my Marlin 1895 Guide Gun , so I thought that I would send a few photos of target , rifle , load data and cartridge , and bullets .

3 shots at 100 yards from bench and bags .
Using Varget powder , 50 grains , WW Brass , Fed. 215 primer , Missouri Bullet Co. 405gr Hardcast - HiTek coated .
Shots #1 and #2 were both 1637 FPS , and #3 showed error .

I tried loading H4198 powder , but at same velocity range , 1622 FPS and 1667 FPS - then chronograph error , but 3+ inch group .

I quit testing when my MagnetoSpeed quit recording the velocities .

I hope to get to range to do further testing with H4198 and IMR4166 powders , hoping to get a loading from either of these 2 powders at the 1600-1650 FPS velocity level that are as accurate as my Varget load has shown to be .

I would prefer to save my Varget powder for my .308 Winchester and .223 Rem- AR15 .

I wish to THANK ALL of you for sharing your knowledge and experience with those of us who have questions .

DMP25-06

 

[Dean2]

Hello Dean2 ,

I am NOT Tac-O , but you had given advice to me about .45-70 , 405gr. Hardcast bullets , loading for my Marlin 1895 Guide Gun , so I thought that I would send a few photos of target , rifle , load data and cartridge , and bullets .

3 shots at 100 yards from bench and bags .
Using Varget powder , 50 grains , WW Brass , Fed. 215 primer , Missouri Bullet Co. 405gr Hardcast - HiTek coated .
Shots #1 and #2 were both 1637 FPS , and #3 showed error .

I tried loading H4198 powder , but at same velocity range , 1622 FPS and 1667 FPS - then chronograph error , but 3+ inch group .

I quit testing when my MagnetoSpeed quit recording the velocities .

I hope to get to range to do further testing with H4198 and IMR4166 powders , hoping to get a loading from either of these 2 powders at the 1600-1650 FPS velocity level that are as accurate as my Varget load has shown to be .

I would prefer to save my Varget powder for my .308 Winchester and .223 Rem- AR15 .

I wish to THANK ALL of you for sharing your knowledge and experience with those of us who have questions .

DMP25-06

Pretty darn good for open sights at 100 yards. With the 4198, try slowing the load to 1300 work up to to 1500 fps. Never been that fond of 4198, in 45 70, seems to have a very narrow velocity range where it is accurate. If you have 3031, that is my all time favourite in the 45 70 for 350 and 400 grain bullets. Have also found 4227 pretty good. See pictures first page. Those are pretty common groups out of a variety of guns using similar loads, these were scooped, not open sights. I find it easier to evaluate load accuracy/groups using a scope.

 

[DMP25-06]

Pretty darn good for open sights at 100 yards. With the 4198, try slowing the load to 1300 work up to to 1500 fps. Never been that fond of 4198, in 45 70, seems to have a very narrow velocity range where it is accurate. If you have 3031, that is my all time favourite in the 45 70 for 350 and 400 grain bullets. Have also found 4227 pretty good. See pictures first page. Those are pretty common groups out of a variety of guns using similar loads, these were scooped, not open sights. I find it easier to evaluate load accuracy/groups using a scope.

Dean2 ,

Thank you for your suggestion , I will try slowing velocity with the H4198 .
Unfortunately , I do not have 3031 or 4227 powders , so I will continue working with what I have .

Thank You ,
DMP25-06