338 edge or Lapua

[rotorhead]

I have been wondering around this sight for a while and I keep reading varoius post about the 338 Edge. I must admit I do not even know what this is.
Anyway I feel that a 300wby is big enough for any hunting in this country. I always THOUGHT I shot at great distances when hunting. I, for the most part will shoot 5-600 yards with my hunting rifles and I have praticed out to 1200 just to see how I could do. I shot fairley well but not what you guy's shoot. I don't feel that it was good enough for hunting ethically.
So after reading this forum I have got the bug.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I know in order to reach out and touch a critter and still have enough enegy to finish the job I would need a very well build rifle with the cartridge to get it done. Now, I concider my self a good hunter I glass, try to get within 500 and let her sing I have rarely missed at this range. I know I need to learn alot more for say 1000, so in order for me to learn more I have to start with a rifle to pratice with.
I'm sure I will look up kirby or shawn to do the work. Next is to start with a cartridge. 338 edge or Lapua
Can you buy 338 brass or do you have to form it?
I don't have a problem with buying the Lapua brass because I use it in my 223 and it lasts a long time.
I know I will look to use a lilja barrel however I don't want to put a new one on every 800 round so x-nes the big 30's
I will want to build the rifle heavy enough but not to heavy like a big bench rest type. I use rests to sight in rifles and work up loads but after that is done I re-sight in off the rest for practical hunting. I know this gun will have to have some size and the 338 caliber seam to be the biggest you can go and still get some real good distances. other than the 50.
Like I said I don't own or have I ever owned a large rifle like this. I have been hauling around an 8-9 pound gun for years and I don;t see why everybody wants a 5 pound gun the 9 has never been a problem for me. So What does some of your weight? I know I don't want a 25 pounder.

Is any of this even possible?
Am I being unreasonable?
338 edge or Lapua?
Weight?
I know you guys don't shoot resting on a branch so how do you set up? I know prone but what are the details?

Please let me know What you all think.

Thaks, RH

 

[reed mosser]

I would go with the 338 laupa. The brass is tough as nails and excellent in just about every way. Forster makes dies for it and in a 30 inch tube it has enough horsepower for the 300 grain pills. I will take lapua brass over remington every day. The edge will work but you will have more case prep with the remington brass. Its really just a choice over what kind of brass you want. You can put the laupa in remington and savage actions it will work. Hope this helps Reed

 

[Fiftydriver]

Is any of this even possible?

Not a problem at all to get you into the weight you want with either of these two rounds.

Am I being unreasonable? Nope

338 edge or Lapua? Its a toss up there my friend, both are nearly identical in performance with using the heavy hunting weight bullets. Reed is right on in that the Lapua cases are built to higher standards then any Rem cases and that they are much stronger in the case head as well, no arguement from me there at all. I would like to add though that most of you would not believe just how "LITTLE" case prepping I do to my 270 Allen Mag which is based on the 7mm or 300 RUM case and get legit 3/4 moa or better accuracy at extreme range.

Shawn designed his Edge design much like I did my Allen Magnums, they are hunting rifles designed so that they are easy to load for, no neckturning required unless you want to. I for one distain turning necks and have not seen alot of need to do so in anything but 100 and 200 yard BR match rifles.

Its just suprising how little difference you will see comparing Lapus and Rem cases as far as down range performance. In my opinion, that is a non issue for the most part but many feel the more uniform brass is well worth the extra time and money. It may well be, I just can not shoot well enough to see a huge advantage.

Back to case strength though, the Lapua cases will last several times longer then REM cases if your loading to top pressures. There is no question there, the Lapua cases will last longer at high pressures.

Weight? Personally, for a rifle intended to be used for 800 to 1200 yard hunting, I like a rifle in the 12 lb range. 10 lbs is doable but a bit more weight makes it easier to build the rifle and it makes the rifle easier to shoot as well. Anything from 10 to 15 lbs is about right for a semi portable long range hunting rifle.

As for rests, most common would be a Harris bipod on front and a rear bag to support the buttstock as well.

Simply put, in a well made rifle, you will not be able to tell a bit of difference between the two of these rounds at long range. They are both extremely userfriendly, both very high performing and both rifles would be similiar in price and weight.

All in all, take your pick, both will be great shooters.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[Tom Brush]

Kirby:

I am trying to sort out rifle specs. as well. Could you give a little more detail on what a 12 lb. rifle would look like. I have a Hart benchrest single shot action coming with a magnum bolt face. I am planning on building a hunting rifle and would like to hold the weight to 12 lbs. with scope if possible. I would also like a 30" barrel. The stock would be something like the A5 or the thumbhole stock that you have on your gun. The action weighs 2 lbs. 6 oz., I am guessing that the stock would weigh around 3 lbs.

What would be the dimensions and weight of a 30" barrel build to these specs?

Thanks for the help!

Tom Brush

 

[steelhead]

I'm very happy with my 338 Edge that Shawn built for me. It started out as a Remington 300WM Sendero. If you do a search for Devin's Edge, you will find pictures and more descriptions of the rifle Shawn put together for me. Needless to say it is very accurate, I've duplicated the .24 inch group that Shawn test fired with my rifle and I've gotten great accuracy out to 1400 yards. One of these day I hope to get around to shooting it out to a mile and beyond.

Any way, with the nightforce optic, harris bi-pod, TIS sling and rear stock bag, my Edge weighs in under 15 lbs. I used it in a Long Range competition back in August and was able to tote it around just fine. Of course my Gunslinger pack helped out a lot in that regards also. But, I had to climb a 3 or 4 story tower with the rifle and shoot it both right and left handed. Needless to say, by the end of the day, I was still ready to shoot more.

As for ballistics, they seem to be comperable. The nice thing about the 338 Edge is, that I can find components a lot easier than I can 338 Lapua. Several stores in town have 300 RUM brass. I haven't seen any 338 Lapua yet. I don't turn the neck at all. About all I do is size up the 300 brass to 338 and start loading. My dies are from Redding and are top notch. I didn't even sort the bullets like Shawn does and I was still able to get the .241 inch group at 100 yards.

The nice thing about the Lapua is that it is a military cartrige and seems to be gaining in popularity here in the States.

Either way you go, I don't see you being disappointed.

Devin

 

[Fiftydriver]

Tom,

I would look at a #7 or #8 contour from Lilja as far as dimensions. YOu certainly do not have to go with this brand of barrel but this is the barrel size I would recommend. I would recommend both be fluted with heavy flutes or they will not meet your weight requirement.

The #7 fluted barrel at 30" finish length should be just under 12 lbs with your list of componants and the #8 may be slightly over but right in there.

I prefer the heavier barrels with flutes to get the larger barrel cross section for added barrel stiffness. With the heavy 300 gr pills in 338 at the velocity of the Edge you will get some barrel stress.
aI always like as much barrel mass as will meet your weight requirements.

If your going with a 30" barrel I would look at these two contours or similiar ones.

Your stock will be a bit heavier then 3 lbs. I have one with a non adjustable CP that weights just over 3 1/4 lbs but it is a solid bottom stock with no mag well cut. Still, I would guess your stock to be at least this weight with the Adj CP.

If you want the rifle to weight around 12 lbs with scope I would say you will have to go with the #7 contour with as heavy flutes as you can get in the barrel.

It may still be slightly over 12 lbs but will be close. I would much rather have a bit more weight then go with a lighter #6 contour barrel with a 30" finish length.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[rotorhead]

Kirby, I have thought about it and I am leaning towards the Lapua. I know what I'm getting with brass and it just simply makes me feel a little bit better to go with the Lapua brass. I use 223 and have used a couple others over the years and always had excellant luck with it.
I have a few guns and I have always liked sako actions even the 995's are ok if you can put a decent recoil lug on it.
The queation is how do you feel about working with a Sako action?
I will only use Lilja and Krieger barrels I have tried hart and shilen and I feel its hit and miss and I really don't want to go exploring around to find a new barrel maker so I want to stick with the two I have faith in.
In another reply you mentioned a fluted 7 or 8 and a 30 inch barrel I shoot all 26 inch barrels and was wondering how muzzle heavy the 30 would be. I always have looked to get a gun very balanced. I was thinking a 28 but this length my not be enough to get what I need for the caliber, comments? I would suppose with the bipod it wouldn't be an issue?
As far as a stock goes, I am thinking about a Mc millian but would kind of like a nice laminate. How much weight differance are we talking about?
I like detatchable mags as well but I'm not to sure it would be a good idea on this gun what do you think?
I am a little hesitant on a muzzle break but everybody hear seems to use them and the Hollands seem to be the ticket, your opinion on the issue?
The next thought is about scope power, I tend to lean more towards lower power scopes I want to shoot 1000-1200 and the scope power would just have to be enought to get a decent picture I have never felt I needed to count hair, if you know what I mean. I have a 4.5-14 and I have never turn it up to 14 during hunting What do you think? I do know I will need more than this but I just used it as an example.
I want you to know I have a rifle in the works right know so I wouldn't be doing anything for a while but I wanted to kind of get a plan together ahead of time and work through some of this online here so everybody who was interested could follow along and drop there questions in. I will have to find an action anyway and that may take awhile unless you knew some where a fella could get one with out buying the whole gun. I have checked with accuflight and they just want too much. I can buy a whole used rifle cheaper.
Anyway any more commints would be appreciated?

Thank you for your time

RH

 

[screech]

I know Im not a smith and wont be untill I finish college at trinidad. But for optics I would go with a nxs in either a 5.5-22x56 or the 3.5-15.5x56. Either way it will work. if you plan on shooting varmits then i would go with the 5.5-22. but for the gun smithing questions leave them up to the smiths.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Rotorhead,

Put simply and as politely as I can, I do not care to work on Sako receivers. If you have any machining experience you know how "enjoyable" it is to try to recut metric threads inside the receiver and in most cases I will not do it because there is a great risk of breaking cutters and more importantly damaging the receiver.

Rebarreling then is not a problem but other then lapping the lugs there is not alot I do to a Sako receiver. That said, I would say they are one of the better machined receivers out there but seldom do you find one that could not be improved by accurizing.

Another thing I really do not like is that you are greatly limited as to what you can modify a Sako receiver to. Pretty much your stuck with the same case diameter and length as the original chambering just because its so difficult to get parts for modification.

THe rifle would be a bit muzzle heavy depending on what stock you used. A Laminate stock is pretty heavy and would ballance pretty well. You can always get a bit of weight added to the McMillan to balance things out.

I recommend either Holland or Defensive Edge brakes and use Defensive Edge brakes exclusively now unless my customer requests another brand.

All of my personal LR rifles have either 3.5-10, 3.5-15 or 4.5-14x scopes. I have never felt a need for more glass for shooting out to 1200 yards. I shot a rockchuck this summer at 2370 yards with my 338 Allen Mag with a 3.5-15 NF NXS in the saddles set on 15x.

The quality of the glass is much more important then the magnification to be honest. get good class and a practical power range and you will be well served. Remember, the higher power you use, the quicker you will loose shooting light through your scope!!

To finish, I would highly recommend looking at a custom receiver over the Sako. If you want to go with the Lapua anyway. TO get the very best results for your money, its often better to spend a few more hundred $$ and do it right the first time then have to possibly redue things down the road.

Been there done that, several times!!!

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[rotorhead]

Kirby , your not hurting my feeling at all. I have several sakos but they are basically rebarreld action to my spec. I have just always had good luck getting them rebarreled and getting a real fine shooter out of them.
That being said what do you suggest??

Rh

 

[Fiftydriver]

If your on a budget, a Lawton receiver would be my first choice. The BAT receivers are very impressive as well for that type of rifle but are more expensive.

The Nesika Bay receivers are amazing but nearly twice the price as the Lawtons and to be honest, I doubt you could tell any difference in performance consistancy wise.

If your looking for a factory receiver, a properly trued Chrome Moly Rem 700 can be set up to use the Lapua very well and will be very accurate. If you like to run things to the ragged edge in pressure, I would not combine the Rem 700 and the Lapua.

The 338 Edge would be a much better fit in the Rem 700 receiver, stainless or Chrome moly.

I would agree, for the most part, the Sako receivers will produce fine shooting rifles. As a custom rifle builder, I just hate to build on a receiver that I know is not as perfectly true and square as I can get it with a full machining job. I guess I am a bit picky that way but most custom rifle builders tend to be that way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[rotorhead]

Kirby, Where can I find a lawton and bat?
I would like to see them on the internet or somthing. I have seen a Nesika Bay.
Thanks, RH

 

[ol mike]

Rotorhead ,

Google for www.lawtonriflebarrels.com sometimes it takes a little time to get one.They are already spoken for by the time they are produced.

I hope you go w/the 338 lapua -nothing against the 338 edge.
I want to build something along this line in the future -custom action -5r rockcreek barrel -single shot around 14 lbs..
I have an Eberlestock x-1 backpack that the gun carries down the top of the pack tight to your back.It will tote the gun and your other doins <-do-ins=stuff so well you won't believe it!--$99@ wyoming outdoors---Mike

 

[rotorhead]

Thanks for the information ol'mike
I will fine out some prices. I am not in a hurry get this done I am just at the begining stages. I have decided for sure to go with the 338 Lapua. I like good brass it makes my job a little easier.

RH