338-300 WSM for a light elk rifle?

[AZShooter]

Bigngreeen,

Was reading along and suddenly saw that I contributed to this two years ago!

I got that cow elk with the 338 RCM I had recently built back then. It was 140 yd shot through chest, the 225 accubond exited. The cow was next to the private land fence and was about to jump. After the shot it looked like it still might try so I put a second one through the base of the neck. Very happy with the package. A joy to carry.

Just thought I'd mention the following as you were originally pondering the 338-300 WSM. Just a few weeks ago a friend had me work up a LR elk load for his very light Browning A-bolt in 300 WSM. I had some 230 gr Berger target hybrids and for grins thought I'd give them a try. The bullets are seated to feed from this short action with the bullet seated VERY deeply in the case. RL-17 has the bullet moving at 2725 fps and it is accurate. Why bother with the 338-300 WSM if you could get a 215 or the 230 hybrid to shoot? Look at what Broz has done with those bullets, perfect elk medicine.

 

[bigngreen]

Bigngreeen,

Was reading along and suddenly saw that I contributed to this two years ago!

I got that cow elk with the 338 RCM I had recently built back then. It was 140 yd shot through chest, the 225 accubond exited. The cow was next to the private land fence and was about to jump. After the shot it looked like it still might try so I put a second one through the base of the neck. Very happy with the package. A joy to carry.

Just thought I'd mention the following as you were originally pondering the 338-300 WSM. Just a few weeks ago a friend had me work up a LR elk load for his very light Browning A-bolt in 300 WSM. I had some 230 gr Berger target hybrids and for grins thought I'd give them a try. The bullets are seated to feed from this short action with the bullet seated VERY deeply in the case. RL-17 has the bullet moving at 2725 fps and it is accurate. Why bother with the 338-300 WSM if you could get a 215 or the 230 hybrid to shoot? Look at what Broz has done with those bullets, perfect elk medicine.

I was thinking last night as I was skinning a few elk, that maybe a 300 WSM loaded down heavy might work well. I've seen Broz work with the 215 from over his shoulder, also his son with the 230 from a 300win, both are impressive bullets but maybe for a fighting your way out of the timber gun the 230 may be better. Definitely something to ponder, I do like wildcats though, I was thinking with the 338 WSM that a 250 Berger might be rather sweet

 

[Timber338]

Bigngreeen,

Was reading along and suddenly saw that I contributed to this two years ago!

I got that cow elk with the 338 RCM I had recently built back then. It was 140 yd shot through chest, the 225 accubond exited. The cow was next to the private land fence and was about to jump. After the shot it looked like it still might try so I put a second one through the base of the neck. Very happy with the package. A joy to carry.

Just thought I'd mention the following as you were originally pondering the 338-300 WSM. Just a few weeks ago a friend had me work up a LR elk load for his very light Browning A-bolt in 300 WSM. I had some 230 gr Berger target hybrids and for grins thought I'd give them a try. The bullets are seated to feed from this short action with the bullet seated VERY deeply in the case. RL-17 has the bullet moving at 2725 fps and it is accurate. Why bother with the 338-300 WSM if you could get a 215 or the 230 hybrid to shoot? Look at what Broz has done with those bullets, perfect elk medicine.

I fully agree that a 338-300wsm is NOT a long range setup. It lacks the raw horsepower to push a heavy high b.c. 338 bullet fast enough to make it lethal at long range. I think everything that AZShooter says is right on that a 300wsm with heavy bergers will do a better job at long range than a 338-300wsm wildcat. And in the end is more versatile since it's 30 cal and you can get a factory rifle and standard dies.

With that said, for those of us that like to tinker, a 338-300wsm wildcat is just fun. I love .338 caliber for elk hunting and I think this wildcat is just about the perfect timber gun. And still is very viable for medium range shots maxing out around 700 yards.

I built my rifle around a Win M70 Extreme Weather rifle. The M70 short action is a bit longer than the remington short action, and I can seat Accubonds and Barnes TTSX .020 away from the lands and still fit in my magazine box. The barrel is a Pac-Nor 24" ultralight contour. Glass bedded the action. And I am actually very happy with the factory Winchester "MOA" trigger. 2.75 lbs at its lightest setting with a very crisp break. For optics I originally mounted a Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40 w/ talley lightweight rings. Fully outfitted with sling/bullets, the rifle weighed just under 7.5 pounds.

I can shoot the 250 Accubond accurately @ 2715 fps w/ RL-17. Over 4000 ft*lbs of energy is a whole lot in a 7.5 lb package. I think that beats a .30 cal 230 hybrid up close, although I admit either load would work great. Nobody can argue with Broz' tried and true results, near and far, with a berger.

My favorite and most accurate hunting load for the gun is a 210 TTSX seated -.050 from the lands over 68.5 grains of H4350. I was able to push the bullet over 2900 with a max load, they just were not as accurate. I am able to shoot 1/2 moa (and often times better) out to 700 yards. Since the gun has turned out to be such a shooter, I replaced the leupold with a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50. Added about 10 ounces to the setup but I think it was worth it. The 50mm objective gathers more light in the dark forests plus has the illuminated reticle. And I was able to reach out to 630 yards to drop a very nice bull on opening morning this year.

In the end I would have saved money had I gone with a 300wsm. But I would have been lucky to buy a factory rifle with the kind of accuracy I am getting out of the pac-nor barrel. And I have had a whole lot of fun with the wildcat. gun)

 

[bigngreen]

Thanks for the info! So I ran some numbers and did some thinking while driving and it looks like both the 300WSM with the Berger 230 and the 338WSM with the Berger 250 should run about 2800fps in a 26in barrel in a long action. At my elevation that puts both well inside my comfort zone for impact velocity at 800 yards, both are so close to identical it's funny. I think the Berger 250 Elite Hunter may be a little more violent in closer at those velocities than the 230 OTM, plus the 338 WSM would have a little more cool factor for me and the 338 should have a real long barrel life for a lot of shooting also!!!

 

[Timber338]

If I had to do it over again I would definitely go with a 26" barrel. When I end up wearing my current barrel out I will likely go with something like a 26" fluted #3 contour.

And dang you all ... now you got me running numbers for how the 250 elite hunter would perform in my gun. I've never shot a berger, but I assume that with my short action the long bullet would chew up a bit of extra case capacity? If I was at 2715 with the 250 accubond, would I be able to get 2650 with the berger?

It definitely carries more energy than the 210 barnes I am currently shooting... If my 2650 fps guess is right, the berger load would carry almost 400 ft*lbs more energy at 700 yards!

What do you think, should I try and work up a load with the 250 Berger?

 

[bigngreen]

Ya, you better get some and work up a load course my motivation is purely selfish!! With other cals that I've shot the Bergers and the Accubombs the long bearing surface of the Accubomb would pressure up sooner and I could romp on the Berger harder and get more velocity over all with them.
I'm thinking a number 5 contour, the hole in a 338 barrel makes them light and I want to be in the 9 pound range and it's harder to thread for a brake in the lighter contour.
Building it on a long action now so I'll get a custom reamer set up and I should be able to stick them way out there and cycle through the mag and maximize the amount of powder gun)

 

[AZShooter]

Decisions decisions....you said the 230 OTM. Crunch the numbers again with the 230 target hybrids. That is the bullet that is so deeply seated in my friend's 22 inch A-bolt with Boss in 300 WSM, getting 2725 fps.

For what it is worth I tried the .388 250 hybrid in that lightweight 338 RCM and couldn't get it to shoot. To date it is the only hybrid that didn't respond. Others were fine: 105 6mm (6mm-284), 168 classic 7mm (284 win and 7 Rem Mag), 300 OTM .338 (long throated 338 RCM heavy gun)and most recently the 230 hybrid target (300 WSM and 300 RUM).

 

[Timber338]

What are your guys thoughts on accuracy of the Accubomb vs the Berger?

And from my own experience the barnes I'm shooting just don't expand enough. I've had great expansion out of the Accubonds, and it sounds like a 250 elite hunter would open up just fine too... so it comes down to accuracy. Thoughts?

If I can get ahold of some berger 250's I'll probably be able to shoot them the first weekend in December. Will let you know how it goes.

 

[bigngreen]

Decisions decisions....you said the 230 OTM. Crunch the numbers again with the 230 target hybrids. That is the bullet that is so deeply seated in my friend's 22 inch A-bolt with Boss in 300 WSM, getting 2725 fps.

I re ran the numbers with the 230 Target Hybrid and at 800 the velocity and energy are within 60 fps and ft lbs between the 300 and 338, elevations in within a 1/10th MOA and windage favors the 230 by a couple 1/10ths.
Very close to each other at the same starting velocity, but if your buddy is getting 2725 from a 22in barrel seated deep going to a long action 26in barrel a guy may be surprised at the velocity gain!!!

I've had exceptional success getting Bergers to shoot, I had a rocky start but I've loaded so many now that I can usually get them dialed in very quick, the last one only took 12 rounds and we had found the load, loaded up a bunch and punished rocks out as far as the shooter was capable. But some guns just flat reject all common sense and won't shoot a certain bullet, I don't dwell on it just move to another bullet before wasting multiple boxes trying to force it to happen.

 

[bigngreen]

What brass are you guys using. I mashed up a couple 270wsm cases and seated some 300gr OTMs in the right position to be the same as a 250. I loaded them up in a Weatherby vanguard that i have around and they mag feed perfectly from the standard length mag. Recoil numbers are very close to the 300 Wby which is acceptable but I would brake it so I can easily go from braked to non depending on the terrain.

 

[Timber338]

I am using Nosler 325wsm brass. The Win brass I started with was all over the place. From loose primer pockets to huge weight variations to large variations in neck wall thickness.