300WIN Velocity

[Lefty7mmstw]

Why will it have horrible harmonics?

Whatever the barrel's resonant frequency is, its harmonics and resonant frequency will be identical for every shot fired with the same load. Only their amplitude will vary with how hot the load is, but the frequency and direction will be exactly the same for each and every shot.

Why? The barrel has the same shape and metalurgy for every shot fired; it doesn't change. And heat doesn't change that until the barrel melts into a liquid.

I keep hearing that from people talking about the wssm cartridges too. The thing is supposed to be a total pile of #### from what the rumor mill says and factory ammo certainly isn't stellar, but I've got three different loads from mild to wild that will hold 1/4 to1/2 moa.

 

[Bart B]

Go ahead, get a 4ft barrel that tapers from 1.25 to .675" and see how it acts

Such a 30 caliber barrel will weigh 8.97 pounds and have a resonant frequency of 21.87 Hz as it whips like a fishing pole held by the angler's hand; lots at the muzzle but little if any at its breech end held in the receiver. Each and every time, indeed.

Any answer to my question about what harmonic resonance is, or is that a secret that only those of your ilk are privelidged to know?

 

[backwoods83]

Its obviously the sound frequency a given material puts off when moved, hit, pinged, something goes through it or over it, by it etc... most commenly measured in hz. With variances in steel from lot to lot I can almost bet your reply of 21.87hz is inaccurate. The more resonance it has the harder it is to tune, so much pain in the *** to gain what? 22 and 6mm PPc arugably the most accurate rounds in the world, optimal record setting barrel lengths of 22", not 34". You say you can not change the properties of the steel without melting it, I call BS, the more "harmonics" it has the more everything around the barrel, temp, pressure, etc.. effect it, also if you shoot at night or own a bore scope you can see that you are indeed melting your barrel little by little, around 22-2400 degrees melts stainless, your igniting a 27-2800 degree bomb in the throat every time you send one down range. Get a overbore magnum like a 257wby for example with a sporter barrel, shoot it 10 times in 90 seconds at night time and watch the chamber glow, do it again in the day time and watch your groups go all to hell. I guess you still think a copper jacketed piece of lead moving at any rate from 1k to 5kfps is what's wearing out your barrels. Finally since most of us arent perfect except maybe you, who can obviously get an ES and SD of 0, cannot get every round to be "perfect" and act like a trained monkey, we stick to what's easier. Good day.

 

[Bart B]

Harmonic resonance?

Its obviously the sound frequency a given material puts off when moved, hit, pinged, something goes through it or over it, by it etc... most commenly measured in hz.

The natural frequency a barrel (or even a barreled action) by itself rings at when struck is much higher than the natural (resonant) frequncy a barrel has when one end's fixed by being threaded into a receiver; called fixed-end resonance. It's that fixed end resonance of a barrel that gives its muzzle the greatest angular motion at low frequencies. And its only a fraction of the higher frequency one hears when smacking a barrel with a hammer.

If you don't understand and realize this, you need to learn a few things about tube vibration.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I've seen barrels from 10-28" long perform well. What you feed it matters a lot more than the barrel length. Shorter barrels are easier to get shooting, but the bullet liking how it's pushed down the barrel is more important. Much like I can whoop on most people playing chess but don't care a bit about position numbers and barely care the piece names, I really do not care a bit about the harmonic resonance of the barrel as long as I can tune enough of a null as the bullet leaves for accuracy.
The 300 win has got to almost be loosing velocity by 34". I had a pressure gauge on my last 7stw for a time, and at 26" the pressure was already down to 12,000 psi or so, and the 300 win is a bit less overbore. It should be closer to 10K psi at 26".

 

[backwoods83]

It doesn't matter that much to me either, I just do not care for wise a$$es. Especially someone who thinks they are are the only one who knows physics, sound speed in 416R is a constant at 13,333 mph, which in his tiny brain tells him that it has a constant frequency, which it does, if it is dormant and nothing ever changes. Oh, and don't give me that **** about it will weigh 8.97 pounds, you have no idea how it will be shouldered, threaded, contoured, or crowned, therefore no idea what it will actually weigh until its done and weighed. Its also possible for a human to actually hear 21.87hz, after that then you break it down in to its molecular construction which varies from one maker to another. The only thing I see you're good at is reading someone elses theories and using math to come up with a pathetic argument, when I think you should do some more reading on resonance, hertz, and wavelengths and see how they are effected by size and shape. Lefty your right most of my buddies that shoot IBS use 28" barrels for 300wm and wby, , the one I learned the most from had a 28" barrel chambered in 30x284, it wasn't enough, he had it set back and rechambered in 300wm and it finished at 25.75", only shot the 210 berger at 2780, but his grandson won 4 or 5 1k junior championships, and to this day will still print 3.5" groups at 1000yrds.

 

[Bart B]

I've seen barrels from 10-28" long perform well. What you feed it matters a lot more than the barrel length. Shorter barrels are easier to get shooting, but the bullet liking how it's pushed down the barrel is more important. Much like I can whoop on most people playing chess but don't care a bit about position numbers and barely care the piece names, I really do not care a bit about the harmonic resonance of the barrel as long as I can tune enough of a null as the bullet leaves for accuracy.
The 300 win has got to almost be loosing velocity by 34". I had a pressure gauge on my last 7stw for a time, and at 26" the pressure was already down to 12,000 psi or so, and the 300 win is a bit less overbore. It should be closer to 10K psi at 26".

I agree about what a barrel's fed means more that its length. I've shot the same load in barrels from 22 through 32 inches and twists from 1:11 to 1:13 and it performed well. 'Course the shorter ones didn't keep 168's from the .308 Win. case supersonic past 900 yards, but through 800 accuracy was excellent. I've wore out my share of 28 and 30 inch barrels with .264 Win. Mag, two 30 caliber magnums and .308 Win. winning my share of the matches. Only worked up a load for the .264 and just used the loads other top competitors used in the 30 caliber ones. All were tack drivers.

I doubt a .300 WM will start loosing velocity at 34 inches. Not when my 32 inch .308 Win. barrels shoot 155's out at 3120 fps. The .300 may well need several more inches before velocity starts dropping.

 

[Bart B]

It doesn't matter that much to me either, I just do not care for wise a$$es.

You must be the forum bully by the way you post your frustrations. Bully's don't like wise asses being smarter than the dumb asses they are. They'll use bad information to make themselves look good. For example.......

The velocity of sound in 416 stainless steel is about 14,900 fps or about 2.822 mps or about 10,159 mph. That's quite a bit different that the 13,333 mph you claim. Lots of internet sites have the info to show you that.

And grade school math can calculate what a countoured finished barrel will weigh within 1/4th of an ounce.

Sorry backwoods83, you're wrong on too many issues. Too bad you don't have the wherewithall to realize that. If you ever get control of your egos, you'll probably be a nice guy and definitely be a lot smarter.

 

[backwoods83]

Yeah you're going to get within a 1/4 ounce not knowing what kind of crown or its depth if recessed, how much shoulder it has, what its thread size and pitch are, and its chamber dimensions, ok, I believe you, your einstien. Then I guess you assume all 416R SS stock is identical. Then you want to argue about resonance, which has nothing to do with frequency, it is a measurement of the time "dwell" in which it takes to go dormant "settle, and with changing size and shape it becomes less predictable. Hell what do I know, every body that puts these things up to read has to be wrong, except you of course. Oh, and bully, this was posted to the op originally, then you decided to be an ***, so who's really the bully?

 

[dragman]

Look, I didn't choose this setup but I don't mind the super heavy barrel either. I don't know anything about frequencys and harmonics what I do know is if the barrel is good you can just about always find something that the gun likes. My question was only one of FPS with the extra length In a "mag" i don't believe it will slow down until well over 40" as we tested it once by starting long and cutting back and shooting at each inch. I also know that every barrel is different I have had FAST guns and dogs too. for the record this gun shot 190 hunting VLD's @ 3190 and produced some sub 1/4" groups at 200 yards without much work. It all comes down to MATH and 1+1 doesn't always equal 2 when it comes to guns

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

You must be the forum bully by the way you post your frustrations. Bully's don't like wise asses being smarter than the dumb asses they are. They'll use bad information to make themselves look good. For example.......

The velocity of sound in 416 stainless steel is about 14,900 fps or about 2.822 mph. That's quite a bit different that the 13,333 mph you claim. Lots of internet sites have the info to show you that.

And grade school math can calculate what a contoured finished barrel will weigh within 1/4th of an ounce.

Sorry backwoods83, you're wrong on too many issues. Too bad you don't have the wherewithal to realize that. If you ever get control of your egos, you'll probably be a nice guy and definitely be a lot smarter.

I hate to say it, but you are confusing miles per hour(mph) with miles per second(mps) which at equal velocity will travel 1/360th of the distance. 14,900 fps is still only 1015.2 mph though. (actually is 10,152 mph- Yx60x60 conversion to mph from mps, not6x60 like i did in a brain fart)
The basic problem is you are both arguing a moot point since all rifles will behave slightly differently. A longer barrel will tend to whip more and be more harmonically unstable. With today's barrel tolerances and the quality of bullets a whippy barrel can likely be overcome though.

 

[Bart B]

I hate to say it, but you are confusing miles per hour(mph) with miles per second(mps) which at equal velocity will travel 1/360th of the distance. 14,900 fps is still only 1015.2 mph though.

There's 3600 seconds in an hour, not 360. 60 seconds times 60 minutes = 3,600 seconds in an hour. I corrected my earlier post to show it. I posted those incorrect numbers to see who was good enough to see the error in technicalities. Thanks, Lefty, for noticing.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

There's 3600 seconds in an hour, not 360. 60 seconds times 60 minutes = 3,600 seconds in an hour. I corrected my earlier post to show it. I posted those incorrect numbers to see who was good enough to see the error in technicalities. Thanks, Lefty, for noticing.

Yeah, I noticed, then I messed up myself and went 6x60 not60x60.... GGGrrrrr.
gotta love a brain fart.