I would be shooting an arrow, the most powder efficient projectile on earth.
It's opening day archery season....I had to throw that out there.
300 Win vs 300 RUM vs 30-378 Weatherby
- Thread starter Deerhntr71
- Start date
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I would be shooting an arrow, the most powder efficient projectile on earth.
It's opening day archery season....I had to throw that out there.
Hired Gun
Well-Known Member
Out of the box it would be an Accumark in 300WBY or the Sendero in 300RUM. If you are looking for lightweight the Weatherby LW is a good choice. Not fun to shoot but a great tool. If buying used be sure to bore scope them. I have inspected more than a few 300RUM's with severe throat erosion in as few as 40 rounds. Don't get them hot and they last a long time. The burned up ones the guys lost their cool and rapid fired 20+ rounds trying to get the big kicker to group.
A brake is about a must on any of these. If going custom I really like the 300RUM.
A brake is about a must on any of these. If going custom I really like the 300RUM.
500mag_guy
Well-Known Member
+1 the the Sendero 300 rum. I have all of the above and I would go with the rum over the 30-378 any day. The 300 win mag is a old dependable but isn't set up quite as well as the 300 rum.. What can I say I have a favorite . I've got my rum on a healthy diet of 230gr Berger targets and it love them! I'd like to work with the 230s in my custom 30-378 but.. It's got a 1:11" twist and it likes the 185gr Bergers better. It's kind of a silly caliber to have if you also own a 300 rum.
Anyways 100% 300 rum!! It is my all time favorite fallowed by the 375 rum.
. I've got my rum on a healthy diet of 230gr Berger targets and it love them! I'd like to work with the 230s in my custom 30-378 but.. It's got a 1:11" twist and it likes the 185gr Bergers better. It's kind of a silly caliber to have if you also own a 300 rum.Anyways 100% 300 rum!! It is my all time favorite fallowed by the 375 rum.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
The funny thing about reloading manuals is that they rarely list the best powders for a given chambering, WHY is that, not sure but the loads you list are FAR from the best for each chambering. I will admit that what you list for the 300 Wby is about as good as you can get. 3100 fps with a 190 gr bullet in the Wby is a pretty good load. I would not use H4831, there are much better powders to use to get this level of velocity but that is about max.
The 300 RUM in a 26" barrel length with a good load of Retumbo will easily break 3200 fps with a 210 gr Berger or SMK, whereas the Wby will get you around 3K or a bit over but not much.
You have made clear my point on the 30-378 as it needs a load of powder to get the velocity it does but again, your choosing the worst powders to make your point more extreme. There are many loads in the 300 Wby using 8700 that would easily add 10 grains to the powder charged use to get the same velocity you list. Your using loads to prove your point.
As far as your gun barer comment, adding 4" to barrel length would add around 8 oz of weight to the rifle. THAT IS A LOAD that would break most healthy mature male hunters I am sure.
The 300 Wby has a terrible shoulder design for accurate and consistant shoulder control, that is why they invented the Ackely and the Jarrett, to correct the weakness of the double radius shoulder design.
You say anything over the Wby is severely overbore, hardly. Overbore depends on the bullet weight, barrel length, bore diameter and more specifically, POWDER used in the combo. We have new powders today that make these larger capacities very practical. If we were talking back in the 1970 or even 80s, I would agree, your your opinion these days is a bit outdated with the new powders we have to use. In fact the 300 RUM is quite efficient if loaded correctly. IF your hung up on getting the very most FPS with the very least grains of powder, yes, go with the WSM. If you want to drive a heavy bullet to high velocity for the best down range ballistic and terminal performance, there is no question which is better.
Your opinion on short barrel life because of shoulder and neck design is simply something that some gun rag writer writes about. I have tested this to the extreme in my wildcat chamberings and it makes VERY LITTLE Difference. The determining factors that effect barrel life in these large capacity chamberings is simply keeping the barrel clean and keeping it cool. The barrel life of any rifle is much more dependant on how the rifle is shot and cared for, FAR more then what the rifle is chambered in. I had a 300 RUM Rem 700, one of the first to come to Montana. Used it for a load of years, put over 1000 rounds down the barrel. Restocked it and gave it to my brother in law and he has put 500 more through it and its still shooting the 200 gr Accubonds at 3240 fps into sub 3/4 moa groups, about what it did when it was new for accuracy.
Neck length and barrel life have very little in common. Keeping your barrel cool and clean is the key, nothing more, nothing less. Again, back in the day when all there was were chrome moly steel barrel, your argument may have had some merit but with todays fine stainless steel barrels, not so much.
Again, I go back to my original argument, the 300 RUM is a better case design, it will get you a solid 200 fps more velocity then the 300 Wby when loaded to same chamber pressures or better yet it will drive a 20 grain heavier bullet with much higher BC value to the same velocity as the Wby. Brass will be available for ever for the 300 RUM as its very well estabilished and for good reason.
Your argument is more at the muzzle then anything, my point of view is being able to drive a heavy, longer, higher BC bullet to higher velocity so that the bullet does more work down range with less stress on the case. True you can red line the Wby to get the velocity you list or you can use very comfortable pressures in a much better case design and still get better barrel life.
If you take care of both, the 300 RUM will get you just as long of a barrel life as the 300 Wby, especially in a factory rifle, WHY, simply because the Wby will have a very long freebore which will erode much more quickly. When it does, velocity will drop off. The 300 RUM will come with a shorter throat that will be better for accuracy.
You speak of a short throated 300 Wby, if you do that, you drop 100 fps easily off the listed velocities for that chambering....... Not only that but shooting factory ammo in a short throated rifle would be dangerous because pressures would spike very high.
All issues that are NON ISSUES with the RUM.
Back in the 70s and 80s the 300 Wby was near the top of the performance ladder, today its average at best, not opinion, that is simply fact. A great round but there is so much more to be had with no real disadvantages.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Very good points and explaining. Goes along with my comments exactly, if your looking to get he best ballistic and terminal performance, driving the heaviest, highest BC bullet your rifle can handle is where its at and with todays powders, the 300 RUM is certainly not impractical by any means.
As far as your cost per shot number, I would say its much closer then that between the two once you take out the brass cost. Brass price really is only included on the first firing, and the more shots you fire, the less its a factor on each case as you well know. Getting the numbers previously listed on the WBy brass will stress it more then the same numbers listed using RUM brass which translates into more firings per case with the RUM which lowers its cost per shot.
Again, could not agree more with your comments. One does not choose a larger 30 cal for close range shooting. If you choose a 300 WSM, or 300 Win or 300 Wby or 300 RUM or 30-378, you better be using it for larger big game or big game at longer ranges. If your purpose is longer range shooting, that being +500 yards, there is no comparision between the WSM and the RUM and even between the WBY and the RUM there is a sizable difference.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Exactly, people buy the 300 RUMs and 30-378 wbys and shoot them like they do their 308s or 30-06 rifles and WONDER why they loose accuracy with few rounds down the barrel, then they spout all over the web that these are barrel burners while all along, the problem is them, not the rifle or the chambering. Keep them cool, keep them clean and they will last a long time. There is a price to pay for performance of any kind, learn how to use it properly and you will be very happy and very impressed with the barrel life you get out of these big chamberings. Use it incorrectly and yes, you will WASTE a barrel quickly but that is not what HAS to happen.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
The funny thing about reloading manuals is that they rarely list the best powders for a given chambering, WHY is that, not sure but the loads you list are FAR from the best for each chambering. I will admit that what you list for the 300 Wby is about as good as you can get. 3100 fps with a 190 gr bullet in the Wby is a pretty good load. I would not use H4831, there are much better powders to use to get this level of velocity but that is about max.
if you really read my post a and thought about it, the .300 WBY was not my recommendation! But as more than one 1000 yard target shooter will tell you right up front it's probably one of the very best factory based cartridge to start out shooting at 1000 yards. I personally would have started with a 6.5 or 7mm something, but the OP wanted a 30 caliber round. The bad part about the .300 is that we can't get 3100 powder anymore. I often use the AA manual because they are not afraid to list the pressures involved. The loads I listed came out of the Hornaday manual because it was handy, and lets face it most guys will start with a loading manual. In a 300 mag, I'd start with AA3100, and probably stop there as well (I still have two bottles of it).
The 300 RUM in a 26" barrel length with a good load of Retumbo will easily break 3200 fps with a 210 gr Berger or SMK, whereas the Wby will get you around 3K or a bit over but not much.
You have made clear my point on the 30-378 as it needs a load of powder to get the velocity it does but again, your choosing the worst powders to make your point more extreme. There are many loads in the 300 Wby using 8700 that would easily add 10 grains to the powder charged use to get the same velocity you list. Your using loads to prove your point.
As far as your gun barer comment, adding 4" to barrel length would add around 8 oz of weight to the rifle. THAT IS A LOAD that would break most healthy mature male hunters I am sure.
I simply picked out one load, and could have listed four different loads. Whether or not is was the best is a moote point here, as I was looking at what you got for the amount of powder you dumped. There's a lot more to adding 8oz. to the barrel, and you already know this. It changes the over all balance of the rifle shooting off hand, and a few other things as well.
The 300 Wby has a terrible shoulder design for accurate and consistant shoulder control, that is why they invented the Ackely and the Jarrett, to correct the weakness of the double radius shoulder design.
These days I only shoot one round the large double radius chamber. Just don't have the time to mess with some of the others. But what I've learned is that I never see a doughnut. Brass flow is very, very low. Gas flow is best with the larger radi. And less face it the strongest thing in nature is a circle or in this case an arc (Physics 101). I'll take that shoulder anyday of the week, as it works well.
Ackley and Jarrett did their rounds because it's easier to form a sharp shoulder, but you get to deal with their own set of issues as well. With the .300 Ackley you get the pronounced doughnut rather quickly, and the Jarrett will produce it a little later in the game. But to take this a step further, and you look at 1000 yard 30 caliber shooters. They either use the Weatherby, or the Ackley design. Both work well. Yet you don't see anybody shooting the 30-378 or the Ultra mag!
You say anything over the Wby is severely overbore, hardly. Overbore depends on the bullet weight, barrel length, bore diameter and more specifically, POWDER used in the combo. We have new powders today that make these larger capacities very practical. If we were talking back in the 1970 or even 80s, I would agree, your your opinion these days is a bit outdated with the new powders we have to use. In fact the 300 RUM is quite efficient if loaded correctly. IF your hung up on getting the very most FPS with the very least grains of powder, yes, go with the WSM. If you want to drive a heavy bullet to high velocity for the best down range ballistic and terminal performance, there is no question which is better.
I said the .300 WBY was over bore as well, but also said the other two were somewhat ridiculous. But also said that you needed to be looking at 220 grain and heavier bullets to make sense out of these cases (at one time the Navy was playing around with 300 grain solid tungsten bullets in the .300 Win mag and Weatherby case). Yet a lot of folks are using the .300 WSM case with great results. Seems to be easier to develop loads for, and the powder selection is greater. Now taking notes from Parker Ackley's book, he does point the issues of over bore, verses not being over bore. They are known to be a lot more forgiving in load development. Have a greater barrel life, and tend to group tighter. (an example here is the 6BR and 30BR as both are well known over achievers)
Your opinion on short barrel life because of shoulder and neck design is simply something that some gun rag writer writes about. I have tested this to the extreme in my wildcat chamberings and it makes VERY LITTLE Difference. The determining factors that effect barrel life in these large capacity chamberings is simply keeping the barrel clean and keeping it cool. The barrel life of any rifle is much more dependant on how the rifle is shot and cared for, FAR more then what the rifle is chambered in. I had a 300 RUM Rem 700, one of the first to come to Montana. Used it for a load of years, put over 1000 rounds down the barrel. Restocked it and gave it to my brother in law and he has put 500 more through it and its still shooting the 200 gr Accubonds at 3240 fps into sub 3/4 moa groups, about what it did when it was new for accuracy.
First of all I have not bought a gun magazine in about 15 years, and never did trust 90% of the writers (and still would not). I can only think of one magazine that ever used the neck shoulder design issue, and that was Precision Shooting. I can vouch for just about everything those guys published, and many others will as well.
Neck length and barrel life have very little in common. Keeping your barrel cool and clean is the key, nothing more, nothing less. Again, back in the day when all there was were chrome moly steel barrel, your argument may have had some merit but with todays fine stainless steel barrels, not so much.
Again, I go back to my original argument, the 300 RUM is a better case design, it will get you a solid 200 fps more velocity then the 300 Wby when loaded to same chamber pressures or better yet it will drive a 20 grain heavier bullet with much higher BC value to the same velocity as the Wby. Brass will be available for ever for the 300 RUM as its very well estabilished and for good reason.
Your argument is more at the muzzle then anything, my point of view is being able to drive a heavy, longer, higher BC bullet to higher velocity so that the bullet does more work down range with less stress on the case. True you can red line the Wby to get the velocity you list or you can use very comfortable pressures in a much better case design and still get better barrel life.
If you take care of both, the 300 RUM will get you just as long of a barrel life as the 300 Wby, especially in a factory rifle, WHY, simply because the Wby will have a very long freebore which will erode much more quickly. When it does, velocity will drop off. The 300 RUM will come with a shorter throat that will be better for accuracy.
You speak of a short throated 300 Wby, if you do that, you drop 100 fps easily off the listed velocities for that chambering....... Not only that but shooting factory ammo in a short throated rifle would be dangerous because pressures would spike very high.
All issues that are NON ISSUES with the RUM.
Back in the 70s and 80s the 300 Wby was near the top of the performance ladder, today its average at best, not opinion, that is simply fact. A great round but there is so much more to be had with no real disadvantages.
Once again, just buy a .300WSM and be done with it. If your sick of it, then rechamber the gun to something likable to the shooter. The WSM will shoot tighter groups and last longer. But I also love the .308 Norma just as well.
gary
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
if you really read my post a and thought about it, the .300 WBY was not my recommendation! But as more than one 1000 yard target shooter will tell you right up front it's probably one of the very best factory based cartridge to start out shooting at 1000 yards. I personally would have started with a 6.5 or 7mm something, but the OP wanted a 30 caliber round. The bad part about the .300 is that we can't get 3100 powder anymore. I often use the AA manual because they are not afraid to list the pressures involved. The loads I listed came out of the Hornaday manual because it was handy, and lets face it most guys will start with a loading manual. In a 300 mag, I'd start with AA3100, and probably stop there as well (I still have two bottles of it).
I realized full well you were recommending the WSM, yet that was not one of the options the OP asked about.
I simply picked out one load, and could have listed four different loads. Whether or not is was the best is a moote point here, as I was looking at what you got for the amount of powder you dumped. There's a lot more to adding 8oz. to the barrel, and you already know this. It changes the over all balance of the rifle shooting off hand, and a few other things as well.
This is long range hunting dot come. Rifles will be shot off bipod front and bag supported rear, rifle balance means very little for this type of shooting. I am pretty sure the OP was not wanting an "off hand" long range rifle. Again, this is LONGRANGEHUNTING.com, not your general hunting board. When we make recommendations for posters, we need to listen to what they want and recommend something for LONG RANGE HUNTING, not offhand hunting.
These days I only shoot one round the large double radius chamber. Just don't have the time to mess with some of the others. But what I've learned is that I never see a doughnut. Brass flow is very, very low. Gas flow is best with the larger radi. And less face it the strongest thing in nature is a circle or in this case an arc (Physics 101). I'll take that shoulder anyday of the week, as it works well.
Ackley and Jarrett did their rounds because it's easier to form a sharp shoulder, but you get to deal with their own set of issues as well. With the .300 Ackley you get the pronounced doughnut rather quickly, and the Jarrett will produce it a little later in the game. But to take this a step further, and you look at 1000 yard 30 caliber shooters. They either use the Weatherby, or the Ackley design. Both work well. Yet you don't see anybody shooting the 30-378 or the Ultra mag!
This simply is not true. The double radiused shoulder offers the least resistance to brass flow. If you load the Wby cases to max pressures, you WILL See more case stretching then with a conventional sharp shoulder angle. That is a fact. No donut, possibly true but that's because its flowing around a corner, not a sharp angle is all but the brass is still flowing easily around that double radiused shoulder. It is also not true about the reason Ackely and Jarrett went with a sharp shoulder angle because of ease of forming. It was for accurate and consistant shoulder location and contact with the chamber for better accuracy results.
Again, THIS IS LONG RANGE HUNTING. Not long range target shooting. Your recommendations need to be as such. Yes target shooters prefer smaller chamberings but I would have to see the spec list of the top shooters in the world to believe that they are shooting the Wby or Ackley. I do not believe that to be true. Would have to see the top shooters spec lists to believe this. Most of the long range records being set are with smaller caliber rounds these days from what I read.
I said the .300 WBY was over bore as well, but also said the other two were somewhat ridiculous. But also said that you needed to be looking at 220 grain and heavier bullets to make sense out of these cases (at one time the Navy was playing around with 300 grain solid tungsten bullets in the .300 Win mag and Weatherby case). Yet a lot of folks are using the .300 WSM case with great results. Seems to be easier to develop loads for, and the powder selection is greater. Now taking notes from Parker Ackley's book, he does point the issues of over bore, verses not being over bore. They are known to be a lot more forgiving in load development. Have a greater barrel life, and tend to group tighter. (an example here is the 6BR and 30BR as both are well known over achievers)
Again, not true. The 300 Wby is not over bore by modern standards. Maybe 30 years ago you had an argument but not today. The term overbore came from back in the day when guys were trying to load a 300 Wby using IMR 4350. That is not the case today. The term is outdated and does not apply to much of anything today with our modern loading powders. Again, your comments about PO Ackleys notes simply point out that your arguments are 30-40 years old and out dated. With the powders he used, YES, with the powders we have today, NO WAY.
Again, WE ARE NOT ON 1000 yard BR.com. We are talking about using a rifle that can put the velocity and energy on target at long range to get the job done, not simply the best round for best accuracy on paper at long range. True there are many rounds that may be slightly more accurate then the 300 RUM but in real world big game HUNTING situations at long range, firing rifles from FIELD postions, you will NEVER realize that slight advantage. What you will realize is a heavier bullet, with higher BC value bucking the wind better to the target that is NOT on a shooting range with wind flags and zero angle and when the bullet gets there you will have the advantage of higher retained velocity for better bullet expansion and also higher retained energy loads for better vital tissue distruction.
Again, this is LONG RANGE HUNTING. Your reponses should be directed in that way, not for target use or purposes.
First of all I have not bought a gun magazine in about 15 years, and never did trust 90% of the writers (and still would not). I can only think of one magazine that ever used the neck shoulder design issue, and that was Precision Shooting. I can vouch for just about everything those guys published, and many others will as well.
I have read articles on the subject of neck length/shoulder angle and barrel life in Shooting Times, Varmint Hunter, Precision Reloading just to name a few. I will also say I have proven the fact that how a rifle is shot and cleaned is far more important then what its chambered in for barrel life. My lightweight 7mm Allen Magnum which is based on an improved 338 Lapua case design which you say would be ridiculously overbored, has well over 1000 rounds down the bore and still shoots into sub 3/4 moa groups and has taken close to 30 head of big game from 500 to 930 yards with all but two being one shot kills. To your way of thinking, this rifle barrel should have been toast 5 years ago but its simply WRONG. Heat a barrel up and keep shooting and the barrel wear increases expodentially, keep it cool and be religious in that and you will be amazed how long a worthless chambering like this can last for barrel life. Again, we are not talking about 10 shot groups on paper which it seems you are. I am talking about limiting strings to no more then three shots and once that is one, GETTING off paper and doing practical field shooting practice where one shot is all that is taken at any specific range to sharpen your drop chart and your first shot hit skills. I am not a comp shooter. I do not design comp guns, I design big game rifles that flatten big game at very long ranges, not punch holes in paper at very long ranges.
Finally, the OP asked about the 300 Win Mag, 300 RUM or 30-378 Wby, you recommend the 300 WSM and 308 Norma.... Two fine rounds but neither were asked about and the latter is for the most part a dinosaur. How one could recommend it over the 300 Win Mag these days is a mystery to me.
As far as your comments about the 300 WSM and if the owner did not like it you could just rebarrel it to something that suited the shooter better. Like what, another WSM which would be your only opinion........
Get the Rem 700 in a 300 RUM, that way if you did not like it, you would actually have options to rebarrel it to anything with a magnum rim diameter down the road, that would included belted magnum or non belted, 100 times more flexible for rebuilding down the road.
I do not mean to attack you but all of your advice seems to come from a target shooters background which is fine but it has very little to do with long range BIG GAME HUNTING. True there is cross over to each but when your making claims of the BEST for this and BEST for that, your simply not being factual. Everything you have claimed as being the BEST, I could bring up a dozen points why in fact it is not the best for long range HUNTING.
I realized full well you were recommending the WSM, yet that was not one of the options the OP asked about.
I simply picked out one load, and could have listed four different loads. Whether or not is was the best is a moote point here, as I was looking at what you got for the amount of powder you dumped. There's a lot more to adding 8oz. to the barrel, and you already know this. It changes the over all balance of the rifle shooting off hand, and a few other things as well.
This is long range hunting dot come. Rifles will be shot off bipod front and bag supported rear, rifle balance means very little for this type of shooting. I am pretty sure the OP was not wanting an "off hand" long range rifle. Again, this is LONGRANGEHUNTING.com, not your general hunting board. When we make recommendations for posters, we need to listen to what they want and recommend something for LONG RANGE HUNTING, not offhand hunting.
These days I only shoot one round the large double radius chamber. Just don't have the time to mess with some of the others. But what I've learned is that I never see a doughnut. Brass flow is very, very low. Gas flow is best with the larger radi. And less face it the strongest thing in nature is a circle or in this case an arc (Physics 101). I'll take that shoulder anyday of the week, as it works well.
Ackley and Jarrett did their rounds because it's easier to form a sharp shoulder, but you get to deal with their own set of issues as well. With the .300 Ackley you get the pronounced doughnut rather quickly, and the Jarrett will produce it a little later in the game. But to take this a step further, and you look at 1000 yard 30 caliber shooters. They either use the Weatherby, or the Ackley design. Both work well. Yet you don't see anybody shooting the 30-378 or the Ultra mag!
This simply is not true. The double radiused shoulder offers the least resistance to brass flow. If you load the Wby cases to max pressures, you WILL See more case stretching then with a conventional sharp shoulder angle. That is a fact. No donut, possibly true but that's because its flowing around a corner, not a sharp angle is all but the brass is still flowing easily around that double radiused shoulder. It is also not true about the reason Ackely and Jarrett went with a sharp shoulder angle because of ease of forming. It was for accurate and consistant shoulder location and contact with the chamber for better accuracy results.
Again, THIS IS LONG RANGE HUNTING. Not long range target shooting. Your recommendations need to be as such. Yes target shooters prefer smaller chamberings but I would have to see the spec list of the top shooters in the world to believe that they are shooting the Wby or Ackley. I do not believe that to be true. Would have to see the top shooters spec lists to believe this. Most of the long range records being set are with smaller caliber rounds these days from what I read.
I said the .300 WBY was over bore as well, but also said the other two were somewhat ridiculous. But also said that you needed to be looking at 220 grain and heavier bullets to make sense out of these cases (at one time the Navy was playing around with 300 grain solid tungsten bullets in the .300 Win mag and Weatherby case). Yet a lot of folks are using the .300 WSM case with great results. Seems to be easier to develop loads for, and the powder selection is greater. Now taking notes from Parker Ackley's book, he does point the issues of over bore, verses not being over bore. They are known to be a lot more forgiving in load development. Have a greater barrel life, and tend to group tighter. (an example here is the 6BR and 30BR as both are well known over achievers)
Again, not true. The 300 Wby is not over bore by modern standards. Maybe 30 years ago you had an argument but not today. The term overbore came from back in the day when guys were trying to load a 300 Wby using IMR 4350. That is not the case today. The term is outdated and does not apply to much of anything today with our modern loading powders. Again, your comments about PO Ackleys notes simply point out that your arguments are 30-40 years old and out dated. With the powders he used, YES, with the powders we have today, NO WAY.
Again, WE ARE NOT ON 1000 yard BR.com. We are talking about using a rifle that can put the velocity and energy on target at long range to get the job done, not simply the best round for best accuracy on paper at long range. True there are many rounds that may be slightly more accurate then the 300 RUM but in real world big game HUNTING situations at long range, firing rifles from FIELD postions, you will NEVER realize that slight advantage. What you will realize is a heavier bullet, with higher BC value bucking the wind better to the target that is NOT on a shooting range with wind flags and zero angle and when the bullet gets there you will have the advantage of higher retained velocity for better bullet expansion and also higher retained energy loads for better vital tissue distruction.
Again, this is LONG RANGE HUNTING. Your reponses should be directed in that way, not for target use or purposes.
First of all I have not bought a gun magazine in about 15 years, and never did trust 90% of the writers (and still would not). I can only think of one magazine that ever used the neck shoulder design issue, and that was Precision Shooting. I can vouch for just about everything those guys published, and many others will as well.
I have read articles on the subject of neck length/shoulder angle and barrel life in Shooting Times, Varmint Hunter, Precision Reloading just to name a few. I will also say I have proven the fact that how a rifle is shot and cleaned is far more important then what its chambered in for barrel life. My lightweight 7mm Allen Magnum which is based on an improved 338 Lapua case design which you say would be ridiculously overbored, has well over 1000 rounds down the bore and still shoots into sub 3/4 moa groups and has taken close to 30 head of big game from 500 to 930 yards with all but two being one shot kills. To your way of thinking, this rifle barrel should have been toast 5 years ago but its simply WRONG. Heat a barrel up and keep shooting and the barrel wear increases expodentially, keep it cool and be religious in that and you will be amazed how long a worthless chambering like this can last for barrel life. Again, we are not talking about 10 shot groups on paper which it seems you are. I am talking about limiting strings to no more then three shots and once that is one, GETTING off paper and doing practical field shooting practice where one shot is all that is taken at any specific range to sharpen your drop chart and your first shot hit skills. I am not a comp shooter. I do not design comp guns, I design big game rifles that flatten big game at very long ranges, not punch holes in paper at very long ranges.
Finally, the OP asked about the 300 Win Mag, 300 RUM or 30-378 Wby, you recommend the 300 WSM and 308 Norma.... Two fine rounds but neither were asked about and the latter is for the most part a dinosaur. How one could recommend it over the 300 Win Mag these days is a mystery to me.
As far as your comments about the 300 WSM and if the owner did not like it you could just rebarrel it to something that suited the shooter better. Like what, another WSM which would be your only opinion........
Get the Rem 700 in a 300 RUM, that way if you did not like it, you would actually have options to rebarrel it to anything with a magnum rim diameter down the road, that would included belted magnum or non belted, 100 times more flexible for rebuilding down the road.
I do not mean to attack you but all of your advice seems to come from a target shooters background which is fine but it has very little to do with long range BIG GAME HUNTING. True there is cross over to each but when your making claims of the BEST for this and BEST for that, your simply not being factual. Everything you have claimed as being the BEST, I could bring up a dozen points why in fact it is not the best for long range HUNTING.
D
Deleted member 46119
Guest
This is a pretty sweet selection to chose from.
I would question anyone who gives advice with such a limited set of base parameters.
but in absence additional input
My thoughts, get the one that turns you on the most.
I have not been behind a 30-378 but have on the others. 300WM was a tactical, it's OK. I have a RUM target and shoot a buddy's Christensen Arms carbon fiber 300RUM. Both have a serious accuracy edge AFAIC.
As for suggestions of 300WSM. It is a fine caliber. One of my favorites. The only big game I have taken is with this caliber at 300 yards with factory copper.
If you are not going to reload, you could rank them in order of available factory loads. From Midway 300WM (83), 300WSM (38), 300RUM (34) and 30-378 (16)
If you are going to load your own. Well, back to square 1.
If you are after a big boom, well there is no question, the 30-378 is the biggest boom in the bunch.
If the goal is to hunt big things past 600 yards, if it were me, it would be the 300RUM. Inside 600 any including the WSM.
And lastly, I'm not as fond of belted magnums for accuracy but many are.
D
Deleted member 46119
Guest
please post about your final choice and pics of the bang stick.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
lets simply put this to bed as I'm 110% one way and your 110% the otherway, and I have no problem with that. We just choose to disagree.
gary
lloydsmale
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2012
- Messages
- 991
problem with that is most 300wsms are on short actions and theres not many options for more power.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Agree to disagree, no hard feelings!
Please realize that I have nothing against any of the rounds your recommending. I like them all, use them all, build rifles in all of them for customers and they all easily meet my accuracy standards and are great long range big game chamberings.
My recommendations are simply more narrowly focused toward the OPs three listed chamberings and that's all. If I were to recommend which I think would be the best 30 cal. to choose from, it would have to be my 300 Allen Xpress!!! May be a BIT biased
.No hard feelings.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
That is very true and one of my points. You can step up to the 338 WSM but you may run into OAL issues with most of the rifles chambered in WSMs. The Rem 700 can be fitted with an extended mag box and work well but other then that, your only options are to go down in caliber which can often improve ballistic performance but may not do much to improve ballistic or terminal performance.
Rem 700 Long action offers nearly endless options if the owner decides they want to modify it down the road.
