3 brushes, 280 patches, still getting blue?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by alexkeyser, Jul 22, 2007.

  1. alexkeyser

    alexkeyser Well-Known Member

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    Feb 22, 2007
    I was cleaning one of my rifles today after some load development. I have always used nylon brushes, a brass jag, and butches bore shine. after cleaning for about 45 minutes I thought I was about done. I noticed my brush was about spent. I couldn't find the nylon brushes at the local gun shop the last time I went so I picked up 2 brass/copper type brushes( there copper in color?). I decided to try one of these brushes before calling it clean. To my surprise the path following the brush came out dirtier than I have ever seen a patch come out of one of my rifles. I was somewhat bewildered by this. I figured it must have been because the other brush was so worn out. So I cleaned in a rythmic process for the next 3 hours and never did I stop getting dirty blue patches after brushing. I always wipe my carbon cleaning rod after every pass, and I spray my brushes with electrical contact cleaner after each set of strokes so I don't contaminate the bore with dirty oil when I'm trying to get it clean. By the end of a total of 4 hours I had patches coming out just blue, no black fouling what so ever. I thought I knew how to clean a rifle but I have to say that I am now embarrassed! Are these brushes that much better than the nylon brushes, or is the blue that I see from the brush itself? I should mention that my process is as follows: 2 wet patches, 20 strokes with brush, 1 wet patch, 1 dry, 1 wet, let soak 5-10 minutes, then repeat. Can anyone offer advice as to what I should do? Should I just keep cleaning?
     
  2. Flybuster

    Flybuster Well-Known Member

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    dont kill yourself

    Sounds like alot of work. I just got so lazy I use a foaming bore cleaner. Its called Wipe Out. You squirt down your boreguide till it comes out the barrel. I like to set it overnight. Run two or three patches through. Repeat the process again,I usually don't have to brush. Its that easy and It really works.
     

  3. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    Brass brushes DO clean better, but brass has copper in it (brass alloys are varying amounts of copper and zinc). If you are still getting blue after that much work, it's probably from the brass brush, which the copper cleaner is breaking down in small amounts. (It doesn't take much to make a patch blue.)

    You could wet swab really well, getting up a decent lather, then nylon brush it, then clean and see if your patch was still blue. If so, you may have a real copper fouling problem. I have heard of that happening with barrels that weren't properly broken in, but you sound like an experienced shooter, so I doubt that is the issue.

    Bill
     
  4. lazylabs

    lazylabs Well-Known Member

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    I would bet it's the brush. I know sweets will eat a brush up so I bet butches is disolving just enough of it to show up. Try a wet patch on the jag let it sit a bit and then a dry patch on the jag and see if you still see copper. The chemical action should get copper response without brushing. I have never tried that with butches but I have with other copper cleaners.
     
  5. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Brass brushes do leave copper when using a strong solvent so
    I like to use hoppes after using sweets or butches to remove
    any remaining solvent and check to see if copper fowling has been
    removed

    Solid copper bullets like the barnes tend to fowl factory barrels worse
    than custom barrels that have been laped.

    Once I fired 50 rds of barnes x through a 416 rem and it took 4 hour,s
    to get it clean.( barrel was not laped or broken in properly)

    Hope this help,s
    J E CUSTOM
     
  6. alexkeyser

    alexkeyser Well-Known Member

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    Feb 22, 2007
    thanks for all the info guys. I think your right about the brush being the culprit. I usually run a patch of rem oil down the tube then a dry patch. that butch's about knocks you ove rwhen you first open the cap. guess I never gave it a thought that it could be eating at the brush. thanks again
     
  7. ol mike

    ol mike Well-Known Member

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    I agree w/ Flybuster =WIPE-OUT is great -i use the accelerator beforehand.

    I use general motors top engine cleaner -wet bore good -give it a few strokes every couple of minutes -dry patch out.

    Then lather up the bore w/ wipe out accelerator -let sit 1-2 min. and send the foam in.

    I also rotate the rifle periodically so the foam creeps to all sides of the barrel. Dry patch out and a few strokes w/an oily patch -done.
     
  8. s.ferg

    s.ferg Active Member

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    I seldom use a brush and prefer to clean with a patch and solvent only. I use a combo of wipe out and butches on my 300 RUM Sendero. I apply wipe out and let it sit for 10 minutes then patch it out. I follow with a wet patch of Butches and let set for 2 minutes, follow this by another patch of butches pushed down the barrel and back twice. I repeat till it is clean. I use no more than 12-15 patches after shooting 20-25 pills. I believe like the others, the copper brush is breaking down , giving you the blues! Once you settle into your own technique, clean your barrel but don't scrub it to death.
     
  9. Dirtybob1

    Dirtybob1 Well-Known Member

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    Definately switch to a less agressive cleaner like Shooter's Choice/Kroil combo and see if problem resolves.

    I also use a surefire light at the muzzle to check for fouling. The intensely white light make the copper fouling easy to see, especially if you park the rod and jag 2-3" from the muzzle and give light something to reflect off.
     
  10. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    I've tried the patch only method, and I'm not sure what you guys are using that can get it clean with only patches, but I can't do it with just patches.

    I clean and clean until I get clean patches. Then I run a brush through several times, and my next patches are BLACK!

    How can you be getting them clean with just patches?

    Bill
     
  11. Stormrider

    Stormrider Well-Known Member

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    Bill,
    I have a rifle that with a barrel that after 3 shots has copper streaks almost hanging out the muzzle. I found that using Wipe-Out and the accelerator if I just let it sit over night it takes out everything. There is no copper, no powder fouling and no carbon left to see. I don't have a borescope but if I run anything else through the tube I get no results. So I think it's clean.
     
  12. Delta Hunter

    Delta Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2002
    There's some good info about borecleaning at this link:

    www.6mmbr.com/borecleaning.html

    I prefer Montana Extreme 50BMG for copper fouling, but use Wipeout also.

    I agree with most here that the blue color on the patches was almost certainly a result of using the bronze brush.