270 Win / 700 Rem mt. rifle

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Jimm, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    Hey guys ,

    This mountain rifle only has a 22" bbl. However I'm not at all sure that is enough for the velocity differences I'm seeing in a recent ladder test .


    Max listed H4831 in the latest Nosler guide is 58 grs.for a 140 gr. ballistic tip. That load is shown to be producing 3000 fps out of a 24" bbl. ( velocities obtained with a Oehler 35p with 8 ft. screen spacing ) Well , in my sons remington mt. rifle with a 22" bbl. it is only producing 2788 fps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif . Bullet is loaded ten thou off the rifling. Once fired rrem brass full prep.

    I'm thinking that I need to go to a faster powder but I also want to carry out this ladder till pressure signs appear . What say you all ? Is it potentially worth it to continue with powder or am I barking up the wrong tree ?

    At this point I thinking to load from 58 to 59.2 and go back to the range .

    Thanks as always for your advice /input , Jim Brown
     
  2. GO-FASTER

    GO-FASTER Well-Known Member

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    I USE RELOADER 22 IN MY .270 I STARTED AT 58 GR. WENT UP TO 62 GR.
    I WENT WITH 61 GR. FOR 130 GR. BULLET 3160 FPS.
     

  3. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    Jim, the first thing I'd tell you is that most of the reloading manuals, especially Nosler, print velocities that I've never been able to achieve. I think they get a figure and add 200 fps. Years ago, I went to a range after I had been loading for 3-4 years and a guy showed up with a chrono. He offered for me to shoot my rifle so we could see what it would do.

    I was shooting 130, 140, and 150 NBTs with IMR4350, H4350, and 4831 each. I had some max and near max loads and not one was even close to published velocities in the manual.

    Sometime later, the same occurred in a 30.06 with Speer bullets. So I just considered published velocities to be a bit embelished.

    JMO.

    Reloder powders have been top producers of velocities for me.
     
  4. ILIKA308

    ILIKA308 Active Member

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    GUYS YOU'VE GOT TO REMEMBER NOSLER CONDUCTS ITS TESTING IN A CONTOLLED ATMOSPHERE. ALTITUDE, BAROMETRIC PRESSURE, AND DIFFERENT LOTS OF POWDER BARREL DIMENSIONS, IE., THE RIFLING LANDS AND GROOVES ALL CONTRIBUTE TO THIS. YOU WANT TO GET SOME WEIRD NUMBERS RUN SOME STORE BOUGHT AMMO THROUGH THAT OEHLER AND BE READY TO CATCH YOUR LOWER JAW WHEN IT DROPS BECAUSE THERE NUMBERS ARE WAY OFF TOO, SOME I HAVE SHOT IS AS MUCH AS 450 FPS OFF OF VELOCITIES. LOAD SAFE AND ACCURATE AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE SPEED. JUST MY OPINION. THANKS
     
  5. firstcoueswas80

    firstcoueswas80 Well-Known Member

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    see, the factory ammo is not always way off, i have shot several different federal premium over chronos in several rifles and gotten close to-deadon-above what they say. averages were all within 50fps either way.
     
  6. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I USE RELOADER 22 IN MY .270 I STARTED AT 58 GR. WENT UP TO 62 GR.
    I WENT WITH 61 GR. FOR 130 GR. BULLET 3160 FPS.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What's the bbl length?

    58 of RL-22 gets me 3200 in a 27" bbl.

    I can't get 61 gr in the case. If I could it would seize the bolt as 58.5 really expands the primer pockets.
     
  7. GO-FASTER

    GO-FASTER Well-Known Member

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    I HOPE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 270 WIN.?
    IF WE ARE I THINK YOU HAVE A PROBLEM IF YOU CANT FIT 61 GR. OF RX-22 IN YOUR CASE,I JUST FILLED 1 TO MAKE SURE I WAS RIGHT, CASE LENGHT IS 2.536 65 GRAINS OF RELOADER 22 TO THE TOP
    AND MY LIGHT WEIGHT .270 HAS A 22" BARREL
    CHECK YOUR SCALE?
     
  8. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    58 of RL-22 gets me 3200 in a 27" bbl.

    I can't get 61 gr in the case. If I could it would seize the bolt as 58.5 really expands the primer pockets.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Roy, with a tall drop tube and win cases I've been able to get 62.0 grains of R-22 or 7828 in a case for shooting 130's. The 140 sierra spb's max out on pressure with 60.8 of IMR7828 or 60.2 grains of r-22. Your only going to get 3-5 shots before the primers fall out.

    To the poster. I have not used your model of Chrono. I found from years of chrono testing that if they are placed 20 feet from the tip of the barrel that you get the most credible read outs. When you get the readout from to close it can be effected by muzzle blast.

    The sub 2800 sounds about right for 22 inches and 140. I use mag primers for all powders R-22 and slower. Try CCI250 and start at 58 grains.
     
  9. GO-FASTER

    GO-FASTER Well-Known Member

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    I HAVE SHOT HUNDREDS LOADED WITH 61 GR. OF RELOADER 22 130 GR. BULLET
     
  10. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    I shoot winchester case's, federal 210 primers and m63 grains of H-1000 behind the 140 grain TXS for 3140 fps in a 29" Kreiger barrel
     
  11. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's what I said above: "Roy, with a tall drop tube and win cases I've been able to get 62.0 grains of R-22 or 7828 in a case for shooting 130's."

    That's also max load so case life goes down. The 140 use even less powder to exceed the pressure.

    Sub 26 inch barrels can't really take advantage of the R-22 and slower powders. You might get the highest velocity out of your powders near the burn rate of 4831 for a 140 grain 277
     
  12. Duff

    Duff Well-Known Member

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    I bought a Rem 700 ADL this summer and worked up a load for it early this fall. Mine also sports a 22" barrel. My load is Win brass, Fed 210m primer, 140 gr. Accubond and 59 grs. of H 4831sc. Velocity is right at 2825 (over my PACT chrono) so I'd say your load is ballpark. I was hoping for more velocity but the dang thing shoots so well I stopped my search. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif I didn't set this rifle up to be the "ultimate long range" rifle, just a reliable, go to, take anywhere rifle. Mine shoots incredible with this load. I killed a nice mulie this fall with it. Bullet performance was great at this velocity with the Accubond. Range was about 210 yards. Take care and good luck-Duff
     
  13. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    Thanks Duff,

    I am not looking for max velo either . just the high node of accuracy as long as it doesn't come at the expense of excess pressure and the accompanying negatives ( shortened brass life premature bblm wear etc. )

    I will report back on this as I have already loaded a few more on top of the last test .


    Jim
     
  14. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Here ya go fella's most probably my very last treatises or whatever re: the 270 Win.

    This may come across a little harsh sounding, as that appears to be the way I sound, when talking via the keyboard. It just sounds that way. It isn't really so /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

    In 1966 had a Dougles Premium 24" bbl installed on a Mauser surplus action. The gunsmith did a fine job. Plunked away w/0.75 MOA average groups for a lotta years with the Sierra 130 BT and Sierra 90 gr hollow point. Add up all the serious groups shot, divide by the number of them and it hung in there at 3/4 MOA. Sweet, I tho't.

    The rifle accounted for 10s or Mule Deer, 100s or Rockchucks and 1000s of jackrabbits and a bunch of coyotes.

    The Speer #7 Manual, new at the time said 60gr 4831 produced 3180 fps out of a 24" bbl, My rifle exactly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I jumped on that load like ugly on an ape.

    Shot a few deer, yotes, jackrabbits and chucks. was doing pretty well. Was happier than a pig in poop.

    Went with the ship to Newport News, VA after a bit of time in the Gulf of Tonkin. (Joined the Navy to see the world and spent 3 years in Idaho. Tho't I died and went to heaven.) Shooting buddy and I came up with chronographs. I bought the paper screen'd Oehler, Ken made his in an ammo box in the the shop on the ship, USS Enterprise by the way.

    Calibrated his to mine and away we went. Hit the local range. Guess what? 60gr 4831 produced 2975 FPS average. What a let down /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif There I was, for a couple of years, making all of those kills with a rifle that wasn't shootin' like I tho't.

    Couldn't get enough 4831 in there to do squat, long drop tube or not. Used the loooonnnng drop tube and filled 'em to the mouth. Crunched the bullet in and still no velocity.

    Then discovered N205. Was in heaven. (angel, angel, angel, sorry no icon w/wings). 61gr N205 gave an even 3200 fps w/no pressure at all. All good things come to an end. No Mo N205. In fact no mo N anything.

    Went to IMR 4350. 58 gr of 4350 gave 3194 fps, was as accurate as anything else but pressures were much higher. So what? Brass just lasted about a dozen rounds before I began checking for thinnning at the head. Had a special crowshay hook (you can spell that one a couple of different ways /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif) My young wife never did learn where that hook went. Also had an Echo case remover standing by, just in case.

    Went back to harvesting stuff on a regular basis for the next 30 years. Twas the only rifle I had.

    An important thing to note: A 270 Win was made to shot a 130gr bullet no faster than 3200 fps muzzle velocity. Why, you ask? Cause I said, that's why! If you want more velocity that than that get a WSM (haw haw haw). Or better a 270 Win AI. That's acceptable in the culture. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    In 2002, I rebarrelled w/a 27" Lilja. After breakin, I used the same loads as with the douglas bbl. Oops, too hot. The way I figure it , the chamber reamer was a schosie bit small at the base. Once case moved .001 or less the it fell out.

    Longer story a bit shorter. The 140 Hornady Interlock and 58gr RL-22 = 3200 fps in the summer and 3010 in the cold of winter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Groups as small as the 1s and as big as 6s @ 200 yds.
    The Nosler 130 Ballistic tip can go 3350 but in accordance with cartridge design I load it back to 3200. Accuracy hasn't been tried @ 200 but at 335 out in the lava rock it runs less than 2 inches.

    What have I learned during that 30+ year period?

    1) Bag the book. Nice starting place but that's it.
    2) Each chamber/barrel is different. Some times longer is slower and shorter is faster. Its gonna shoot what its gonna shot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
    3) Velocity don't mean squat, as long as its uniform, unless you're shooting over, I dunno - say 500 yds.
    4) If the target is well over 500 yds and you're shooting at varmints and predators single digit standard deviations is a MUST.
    5) Number 3 & 4 may be disproven by some. But that's where I'm at at this point in my evolution.
    6) Boattails don't make that much of a difference. But that's all I'll shoot. Even in the 375. So what, get over it! Heck, if I were shooting Muzzleloader sabots, they'd be boat tails...... Now, RBBTs there's the wave of the future. Even purtier that Boat tails.....
    7) Damaging a magazine full of lead tipped bullets with the first shot is the worst thing that can ever be done. It just ain't right. The deer never seemed to notice. But after the first shot, I just know, that all subsequent shots are just pot luck. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif How do I know, well for sure and for certain if I didn't connect with the first shot I never connected with any of the others (one day there were 11 of the others. I hope there are some things ya just don't remember after you kick the bucket and that had better be one of 'em /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif)
    8) If you're only gonna have one rifle the 277 would do ya well. But on the big stuff, remember to shot till they drop, regardless)
    9) Some people are locked into their thinkin cause that's what they've been thinkin for so long they are used to it and think that that's the way it is. It's called stinkin thinkin, in my book (which I haven't written).
    10) There are some people in the world who have the knack to be the leavening to lift and hold things together. There are some around here.

    I've had that 270 for 3 more years than I've been married to my wife and, that's been 72 years. 36 for me and 36 for her. Both have been two of the finest, steadiest, you can count on 'em things in my life. Well, except for 7 grown kids, 8 grand kids, bunches of good dogs, some decent horses, a pet coon or two and enough cord wood to last the winter.

    FWIW