Long Range thick skin bullets

I love these type of threads also. Sometimes it is impossible to know why a bullet works so well one time and performs terribly the next. Examining the wound channel does however give a clue. If the bullet doesn't make it to the vitals, that is in my opinion a failure, but if it does massive amounts of damage to the vitals and the animal doesn't go right down, then what would you say then? There is a fine line on what bullet design is best. I have shot bull elk with 250 gr partitions that did ample damage to the shoulder on the entrance, but the frontal portion of the bullet came apart in the shoulder only leaving the shank to penetrate to the vitals. Not my preference, but the bull died. Another example was with a 225 gr Barnes X that hit a big mule deer through both lungs at 550 yards. The deer ran off. I finally found it the next day and when I gutted the deer I found that the bullet penciled through without causing any tissue damage at all. With the Berger, I believe that heaviest possible bullet for caliber works well to make sure you have a good chance at good penetration on the close shots and also drives deep on the longer shots. I have a very hard time deciding what bullet to have in my gun when hunting in Grizzly country, because a bullet failure could be very painful or worse.

I agree with using the heaviest for caliber when using a thin skinned bullet! Also, your experience with the partitions is very common. I killed twenty some bull elk with 140 nosler partitions in a 6.5 and as I recall, every one lost the front portion and the rear was always intact and weighed about 60% of original....rich
 
He did state it was the OTM bullet and not the hunter or the tactical, Broz has posted a lot of great info on these new bullets and he was using the tactical. I have only used the VLD hunter, but I do have some tacticals loaded for this year. The OTM is not even a choice, its for targets.

Here is my summation of close range performance with the 6.5 vld at 200m and I believe this echos most of the other experiences here. Granted its no MOOSE, however the proportion or 190lb doe to 140g bullet could be compared to what the op used.

 
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He did state it was the OTM bullet and not the hunter or the tactical, Broz has posted a lot of great info on these new bullets and he was using the tactical... The OTM is not even a choice, its for targets.

I thought the OTM was the tactical. If I have this wrong let me know, it will change what I am doing...
 

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Here is my summation of close range performance with the 6.5 vld at 200m and I believe this echos most of the other experiences here. Granted its no MOOSE, however the proportion or 190lb doe to 140g bullet could be compared to what the op used.

380 lb animal to 280gr bullet? Not intending to offend, but I see no proportional comparison to be made by looking at the photo of your doe. A typical weight of a hind leg on a mature bull moose where I live is on the order of 105 to 125 lbs from the knee joint up to the hip socket and ham - skinned and trimmed. But that same leg on an enormous bull moose can weigh much more. That's solid meat. Not low density lung tissue. It's possible to get more than 700 lbs of boned out meat off an exceptionally large bull. The rear leg on one of these large bulls will approach the weight or your entire doe. A large Alaskan bull moose will make an elk look like your doe - as far as proportional comparisons go.

I shot a 62" bull moose with a 210gr Barnes-X bullet from a .338-378 Weatherby in '94. Distance was 630 yds. First shot was a killing shot thru the ribs, but I couldn't be sure about the placement of the bullet at that range. Second shot the bull was facing directly away. The bullet entered just left of the butt hole, pulverized the ball socket - turning it into bone meal, and was found adjacent to the rear wall of the stomach/paunch when the animal was field dressed. It never even made it to the guts. Gut cavity was clean as a whistle. I estimated the total depth of penetration at about 12". This from a bullet that retained all four petals and near 100% of its original weight.
 
I just moved my deer quarters from the ice chest to the freeze to get it ready for processing and low and behold, I saw the remainder of my 300 gr Berger OTM on the surface of the off shoulder. I haven't weighed it yet but it feels pretty good. There is a small piece of lead with it also. Expanded size is close to 1.5 inches. When I butcher later today, I will find out if the bullet broke the off side shoulder blade. Again, my opinion on Bergers is for 338 use the 300 gr.
 

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I've seen multiple kills with the 300 OTM and 230 OTM and they open, even a very light hit on a goat at 900+ got the big 300 open, not a lot but it opened, on heavier game there opening very well!
 
If memory serves me correctly, and sometimes doesn't anymore, I thought the word on the street was that the OTM's were more difficult to expand than the Hybrids? Can someone help me here? I haven't tested the OTM's...........Rich

My understanding is that OTM = Tactical and that this is a hybrid ogive bullet (look at my crappy sideways pic on last page. Box says "OTM Tactical Hybrid"). From what I have read, they have a thicker jacket and thus conceptually don't open as well. If my memory serves, Bryan Litz posted on this sight explaining the difference (the jacket thickness increase is minor, but strength/toughness is cubed?). For hunting they recommend the Elite Hunter in its place...

That said, there are lots of threads on this site making the case that the OTM gets it done on big game. Some very credible, some maybe less so...

I have no on-game experience (yet)
 
My understanding is that OTM = Tactical and that this is a hybrid ogive bullet (look at my crappy sideways pic on last page. Box says "OTM Tactical Hybrid"). From what I have read, they have a thicker jacket and thus conceptually don't open as well. If my memory serves, Bryan Litz posted on this sight explaining the difference (the jacket thickness increase is minor, but strength/toughness is cubed?). For hunting they recommend the Elite Hunter in its place...

That said, there are lots of threads on this site making the case that the OTM gets it done on big game. Some very credible, some maybe less so...

I have no on-game experience (yet)

My bad, it was Eric at Berger who commented. Please see post #29. http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/pics-berger-bullets-not-performing-103068/index5.html
 
like was said in a few of the past posts. You cant judge a bullet by one experience. One of the pictures back a few posts was a deer spined. Hit a deer in the spine with about any fast bullet and its going to do some real serious damage. Ive never killed a thing with a berger bullet so im sure not going to say whether there good or bad but if i was going to pass on an opinion of them id at least like to shoot a few animals and shoot them in the right place before i judged them. Good example is my 264. it was my most used rifle for two seasons but if i would have judged my load on the first two deer i would have at least retired that load. Bullet was a 120bt and the first deer i shot in the spine and cut the deer in half. When i skinned it it actually fell into two pieces. Second deer was at about 350 and i misjudged the wind and put the bullet right on the shoulder and destroyed both shoulders. I know enought though to know that about any gun or load would have had the same results in both cases. Since them i dont know how many deer that gun has dumped but its been a bunch and i dont remember even once thinking, BOY THIS THING TEARS UP MEAT. If you dont want meat damage dont shoot them in the meat. its a simple as that. If you only have a shot that is going to take out meat either pass or admit the meat damage was your fault not the loads.
 
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