Trophy- the top group and even the mid group will work . with the time short. question is are they repeatable? still 180 partitons? imr-4831 is a good/great powder powder. h-4350 was the most accurate for the 165-168 in nosler manual i believe . a 168 cbt and h-4350 is one i would try. you have 1200 bullets ? what others do you have? a baseline potential for the rifle with an accubond or a match bullet would be good. also challenging is you are firing a light 300 mag, not a 6ppc or 222, much more recoil. i do not have a lead sled . i shoot off a pedistal and sand bag. my brother has one and says it is good for sighting in a 375. besides the light mag rifle; the 9x scope, i personally may or may not be able to tell a difference in my loads with that scope. sorry this does not to have do with weighing cases or de burring flashholes. i compete out ot 1000 yards. i do not de burr flash holes. i do not weigh my lapua cases. i have a rem 700 7mm from 1967 . it does not have a brake. it kicks . it kicks a lot . it shoots real, real good for a factory rifle.
How "important" are certain details when reloading?
- Thread starter trophyhusband
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BigJohnH
Well-Known Member
Hmmm ok is the fore rest where you put your hand tight? I don't shoot with the "sled" but if there is a part loose that could cause some issues. I am also thinking grip how tight are you gripping the stock at the trigger? Maybe try shooting without the "sled" see how your groups look.... Just some thoughts.
trophyhusband
Well-Known Member
I'm still using the 180 partitions. I have about 150 of them left (my other nosler bullets are .223). I'm going to try other bullets and powders after elk season, but for now I want to maximize what I have on hand. I agree that the 9x scope is limiting, but the lead sled helps. The gun straps down to the sled as well so that really keeps the kick down.
trophyhusband
Well-Known Member
I tightened the fore rest when I first set up and then just use an elevation knob for fine adjustments while shooting but I'll make sure to pay closer attention to all the parts next time out. The folding table is what it is, not the most solid thing in the world but not much more wobbly than even the more expensive folding shooting benches that are sold in outdoor stores. It wouldn't surprise me that's a bit of a factor. I've thought about building a more solid bench that is portable.
Funny you should mention my grip at the trigger. Today I noticed that I was gripping it very tight. I had to make a conscious effort to relax it a little.
I've shot this gun without a lead sled. Shooting a few rounds is ok, but putting 20 rounds through it would not be any fun at all.
i do not see how Trophy will see a difference doing any of those things; based on the content of his replies. i drive 136 miles one way to shoot my rifles off a cement bench ( pretty anal) ; it is 30 to 35 degrees hotter there. better bench technique , a higher power scope and a match grade bullet will give him better groups. the rifle has to "slide" exactly the same with each shot. that is harder to do with a light rifle that has some recoil.
BigJohnH
Well-Known Member
"By all means, ask away. I haven't ever been taught to do precision shooting so you might hit on something I'm doing wrong."
@100 yds I am thinking more technique rather than other factors, I shoot from a wooden bench setup in my in-laws and I get what I would call ok groups with my .308. If his technique / or basic shooting skills are off that could cause bigger groups...
Trophy I must have missed what you are shooting, I have also shot heavy recoil weapons off shoulder for 20 rounds and it was no fun.... Yes relaxing and maybe not torquing your wrist etc.... When in doubt go back to basics.... good luck John
trophyhusband
Well-Known Member
My Nosler manual finally came in. Interestingly it showed there most accurate load for the 180 partition at 62 gr of the same powder I'm using. I'm also using Nosler brass. They used a different primer and different gun than I'm using.
The Lyman manual shows the most accurate load being at 69 gr of the same powder I'm using. They use the same gun and same primer, but a different 180 gr bullet and different brass.
I loaded up 3 foul shots at 62 gr using brand new brass, 6 rounds at 62 gr and 6 rounds at 64 gr using once fired brass.
Instead of using the somewhat wobbly folding table, I grabbed a workmate portable workbench to shoot from. It was MUCH more stable.
The first pic is of my foul shots. Ignore the three holes that are totally in the orange, they are foul shots from the last time out. The other three were the first three shots this morning after cleaning the gun.
The second pic is the 62 gr load. I'm very confused as to why they are not only much more spread out than my foul shots, but the POI was also shifted a little.
The third pic is at 64 gr. I'm fully ready to accept that the outlying shot here was a result of either something I did while reloading or my shooting technique. It really bothers me to have one out of 6 shot be that far off and I hope I can get that corrected.
At this point I think I'm going to go with the 64 gr load and start practicing at longer distances unless you guys think I should do more testing. After hunting season I'll buy a scope more suited to long range and then I'll try out some different bullets and powders. There are steel targets set up behind my house that I can shoot at from over 1000 yards if I wanted to.
The Lyman manual shows the most accurate load being at 69 gr of the same powder I'm using. They use the same gun and same primer, but a different 180 gr bullet and different brass.
I loaded up 3 foul shots at 62 gr using brand new brass, 6 rounds at 62 gr and 6 rounds at 64 gr using once fired brass.
Instead of using the somewhat wobbly folding table, I grabbed a workmate portable workbench to shoot from. It was MUCH more stable.
The first pic is of my foul shots. Ignore the three holes that are totally in the orange, they are foul shots from the last time out. The other three were the first three shots this morning after cleaning the gun.
The second pic is the 62 gr load. I'm very confused as to why they are not only much more spread out than my foul shots, but the POI was also shifted a little.
The third pic is at 64 gr. I'm fully ready to accept that the outlying shot here was a result of either something I did while reloading or my shooting technique. It really bothers me to have one out of 6 shot be that far off and I hope I can get that corrected.
At this point I think I'm going to go with the 64 gr load and start practicing at longer distances unless you guys think I should do more testing. After hunting season I'll buy a scope more suited to long range and then I'll try out some different bullets and powders. There are steel targets set up behind my house that I can shoot at from over 1000 yards if I wanted to.
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trophyhusband
Well-Known Member
I like the top target too, but the problem is that those are foul shots from two different days, at two different loads, and of varying bullet seating depths. (I fine tune the seating depth while loading the fouling shots). Maybe the barrel shoots better cold.
HiTechRob
Active Member
In one word, consistency is the single most important thing in reloading - period.
Clean brass
Trim to consistent COAL less than max length, I sort based on COAL - with OAL being consistent, the COAL will impact how much of bullet is actually seated into the brass - neck tension can become a factor
I trim neck thickness to 0.012 for uniformity so bullet seats with concentricity
For bullet seating depth, use a fire-formed case from your gun. Back off OAL .010" to seat the bullet just off the lands. You may want to start with 0.020" of lands and go from there.
Understanding headspace is helpful
I load 5-6 rounds per combo to take to the range
Use primer pocket uniformer and deburring tool on each fired case
I weigh all cases and sort, likewise with bullets
I use competition dies to get precision - worth the extra few bucks
For powder, I start with one brand based on reloading guide and work up different loads varying the grains in 0.5 grain increments
Hope this helps.
Clean brass
Trim to consistent COAL less than max length, I sort based on COAL - with OAL being consistent, the COAL will impact how much of bullet is actually seated into the brass - neck tension can become a factor
I trim neck thickness to 0.012 for uniformity so bullet seats with concentricity
For bullet seating depth, use a fire-formed case from your gun. Back off OAL .010" to seat the bullet just off the lands. You may want to start with 0.020" of lands and go from there.
Understanding headspace is helpful
I load 5-6 rounds per combo to take to the range
Use primer pocket uniformer and deburring tool on each fired case
I weigh all cases and sort, likewise with bullets
I use competition dies to get precision - worth the extra few bucks
For powder, I start with one brand based on reloading guide and work up different loads varying the grains in 0.5 grain increments
Hope this helps.
FAL Shot
Well-Known Member
Buy a sonic cleaner and learn how to use it. Clean brass is accurate brass with stable internal volume over time. Adding some residue each shot is NOT consistency.
Buy Nosler, Norma or Lapua cases. Sellier & Bellot loaded ammo makes a good alternative, as you can immediately fireform the brass and trim to your standard length. Virgin brass and fireformed brass take a slightly different powder load for the same velocity.
Winchester, Federal and R-P brass will have a higher cull rate and shorter life, so Lapua and Norma and Nosler isn't that much more expensive. Old Winchester brass was very good. The new stuff isn't the same. The way to get Nosler brass is shoot the Trophy Grade ammo and it is immediately fireformed without that needed extra expensive and you can buy enough and just hunt with that a while, or go out varmint shooting. I got mine for less than the cost of brass and bullets if buying components separately. Nosler sometimes runs factory direct sales on ammo, but not during times like today. Nosler brass is mostly made by Norma.
Some rifles that have perfectly aligned bores and chambers can tolerate immense bullet jump, while others cannot. Know your rifle.
Buy a chronograph and learn how to use it. Keeps you safe when working with hot loads. Long range loads tend to be hot loads.
Case capacity is important. R-P vs. Norma brass changes the powder load about 0.5 grain in my rifle. Fill cases with water, weigh about 5 of them, empty and full. Subtract the difference and divide by number of cases weighed. If running compressed loads, variations in case capacity affect compression quite a bit. Loads where you have less than 90% fill will not matter as much.
I always factory crimp to add a standard amount of startup resistance. Also adds safety as it prevents bullet setback if dropped.
Forget temp sensitive powders if hunting in varied conditions. I learned this the hard way. Losing velocity on a cold day not only drops the impact point, it changes the timing and changes the bullet pattern, almost always for the worse unless your load was a bit too hot to begin with. I just use Hodgdon Extreme powders and got rid of the problem.
Buy a good case trimmer. Double important if you factory crimp, as it keeps the crimp length consistent as well.
Buy Nosler, Norma or Lapua cases. Sellier & Bellot loaded ammo makes a good alternative, as you can immediately fireform the brass and trim to your standard length. Virgin brass and fireformed brass take a slightly different powder load for the same velocity.
Winchester, Federal and R-P brass will have a higher cull rate and shorter life, so Lapua and Norma and Nosler isn't that much more expensive. Old Winchester brass was very good. The new stuff isn't the same. The way to get Nosler brass is shoot the Trophy Grade ammo and it is immediately fireformed without that needed extra expensive and you can buy enough and just hunt with that a while, or go out varmint shooting. I got mine for less than the cost of brass and bullets if buying components separately. Nosler sometimes runs factory direct sales on ammo, but not during times like today. Nosler brass is mostly made by Norma.
Some rifles that have perfectly aligned bores and chambers can tolerate immense bullet jump, while others cannot. Know your rifle.
Buy a chronograph and learn how to use it. Keeps you safe when working with hot loads. Long range loads tend to be hot loads.
Case capacity is important. R-P vs. Norma brass changes the powder load about 0.5 grain in my rifle. Fill cases with water, weigh about 5 of them, empty and full. Subtract the difference and divide by number of cases weighed. If running compressed loads, variations in case capacity affect compression quite a bit. Loads where you have less than 90% fill will not matter as much.
I always factory crimp to add a standard amount of startup resistance. Also adds safety as it prevents bullet setback if dropped.
Forget temp sensitive powders if hunting in varied conditions. I learned this the hard way. Losing velocity on a cold day not only drops the impact point, it changes the timing and changes the bullet pattern, almost always for the worse unless your load was a bit too hot to begin with. I just use Hodgdon Extreme powders and got rid of the problem.
Buy a good case trimmer. Double important if you factory crimp, as it keeps the crimp length consistent as well.
don't listen to this guy. you already said you are using nosler brass- it is already weight sorted well beyong what what is needed for precision. do not beburr the flash holes with nosler brass that has been proven to make groups bigger. not sure how he trims neck thicknees but it requires a special neck turning tool. according to sierra bullets you only turn case necks if you have a tightneck chamber. i am sure on a rem 721 you do not have a tight neck chamber .
trophy already said he was using nosler brass and a chrono. trophy will not see a difference in accurracy by trimming his cases. crimping will not help accuracy. extreme powders are a good idea.
HiTechRob
Active Member
Wow, a real know it all. The gentleman asked what we thought were our important things we considered in reloading. Bless your heart, sir. You simply show your ignorance with your comments. Not sure how he neck turns? Lol!
