whats wrong with THE BEST OF THE WEST

[tjonh2001]

ok guys first of all i was a very big fan of this show. they are the reason that i started practicing for long range.

i am getting tired of watching them show people hunting long range that shouldnt be. what i mean is i just watched wenesday show. they had john porter guiding a sheep hunter. im sure you guys have seen this its been on alot. yeah why all the reruns, anyways they get done shooting a big horn. then they go into talking about the shooter never trying to shoot that far and to top it all of it wasnt the hunters gun. everyone wonders why we have a bad name. they are televising long range hunting the wrong way. im sure that there are plenty of hunters on this board that would go on these hunts and show how it is really done. this isnt the only episode that shows this either.

best of the west please start showing it the way they are. its upsetting to see you guys say dont try this unless you have practised, then you let people on your show do it. is that like do what i say not what i do.

 

[mikebob]

I hear ya, I quit watching it a long time ago when they were shooting elk on public land in the sky line. Didn't even mention looking for other hunters that could be on the other side, there is no telling where or how far the bullet would've went if they missed. I would not want to be in the same country they were hunting in.

 

[Natty Bumpo]

The Best of the West is what first got me interested in long range stuff. I still try and catch it and think it's worth checking out, but in my opinion, it went downhill when they replaced John Burns with Michael Martin Murphy. The primary focus now seems to be on selling their rifles and scopes.

I liked watching Burns and Company hunting and making some impressive shots (to me at least). I'm not as interested in watching John Porter guide people I've never heard of on hunts. I guess it's as much about promoting his outfitting service as it is selling their rifles. Nothing wrong with that. Lot's of shows are built around selling the sponsors/creators product. But TBW started out as something different.

 

[grit]

Fact is, with a solid front and rear rest, all a body has to do is break the trigger without pulling the crosshairs off. I can set up the vast majority and coach them through a succesful trigger break.

Most folks can learn to shoot long in a day!

The real work and experience comes in setting up the equipment and reading wind. Load development, drop testing, etc. I'm not saying long range shooting doesn't require experience. I'm not saying inexperienced shooters should be flinging lead and hoping. I'm saying these guys are shooting fully tuned and tested rifles and ammo. They are shooting from adequate rests. And they are being coached through the set up and shooting process. Perhaps they should explain this!

I teach a one day long range shooting class. A full half my students have never shot past 300 yards. Not once has one left at the end of the day without consistently ringing steel at 1k. Instruction can leapfrog you through years of learning!

Again, I'm not taking issue with the idea poorly equiped, unaided, inexperienced shooters shouldn't be taking long shots. Or the seeming hypocricy on the show. Seems what is needed is a little better clarification of the shooting situations. I must admit the only shows I've seen are the videos. Perhaps the shows have deteriorated since Mr. Burns moved on.

I just want to point out, it really isn't that difficult! Seems a lot of folks have the misconception long range hunting is extremely complex and difficult. Aint so! Not that it can't be! However, I have coached several green shooters through thier first long range kills. These kills were made using my (properly tested and set up) equipment, and basically my experience. There's nothing wrong with that!

 

[tjonh2001]

grit

i would agree that it really isnt that hard to shoot at long if you have the right equiptment though i would also say that you shouldnt be shooting at extended ranges without atleast trying it a few times.

i am not trying to start a ****ing match but as you stated you teach a shooting cource. how many times do you get one of those guys that has never shot past 300 and they hit steel at 1000 first shot i bet not often.

 

[eddybo]

Tjohn agree with you they should try it on the range first, but your wrong about first time LR shooters. I have started a good number of competent shooters down the LR path and to the man each could ring 800 yard steel first shot. I have coached a few novice shooters also, I think all but one or two made hits that would have been lethal. But you nver know if the guy you have lined up on an animal is one of those few who did miss.

 

[grit]

tj,
No worries about a ****ing match. I enjoy an exchange of ideas, even a good argument. Again let me say your points are valid. I simply wanted to interject the idea, "It aint that tough".

How many rookies hit steel first shot at 1k? I agree, probably not many. In my class we start with verifying 100 yard zero, move to 500, 800, then 1000. This is to gain some experience, work on shooter spotter communication, and validate trajectories. By the time we're shooting at 1k (a couple hours) most shooters are ringing the gong regularly. By this time I also know who can shoot and whose rifle / ammo is accurate.

Now, the majority of the shots on BOTW are 500-800. This is a much simpler world than 1000, for most calibers. I venture to guesse for a tv show who gets to shoot is simply who has a tag! Now, misses are useless footage. So, it's safe to assume these guys do what they can to teach the guy to shoot and coach him through the shot.

I have personally coached a couple of first time hunters through thier first kills. One guy had been through my class. The other I had shot with a few times casually. I based my decisions on how far to let them shoot on a couple factors:

1. Did I personally believe they'd make the shot?
2. How solid was the set up?
3. Was the shooter rattled?
4. How did he shoot at targets?

Let's say I met someone I didn't know in the field. Say antelope hunting. I've just killed a big buck at long range and a couple hunters approach and want to know, "How'd you do that". If I liked the guys I'd be likely to show 'em my stuff and offer to let 'em bust a few rocks aways out. If they did well, handled the rifle like a mature adult, and maybe offered to dress my goat, I'd likely offer to let 'em shoot thiers with my rifle and my help.

 

[mikebob]

grit

I went back through my dvd set and it did show them taking the hunters out practicing busting rocks for a day before the hunt, so I think that is great and might look kinda bad to anyone who does not have the dvds to see that aspect. I think mostly now it isnt much differ than any other hunting show, just go out and shoot. At least when burns was on there he did bring practice, advice, equipment and techniques to the show which is what i was interested in not just another go shoot animal show.

But I could be wrong haven't watched it in a long time.

But I still dont like the part of them shooting animals in the skyline on public hunting land without knowing what is beyond the animal. Best of the west may have had problems with Burns but you have to admit he was a good host for their show.

 

[grit]

Like I said, I've only seen the videos. I didn't take issue with anything I saw there. But then I watched it for entertainment. I didn't critique it for what it might teach my kids. Throughout the video John mentioned not shooting long unless you were experienced. He also showed a couple rookies taking long shots.

He had two ideas to promote. 1. shoot responsibly. 2. Anybody can do it with our system. Tough to promote both ideas without seeming to contradict yourself.

I think the seeming contradiction stems from simple misunderstanding. Having a novice long ranger take a coached shot with tried and true equipment is a far cry from average Joes poke 'n hope 'til the ammo's gone. It is my opinion the former is acceptable, the latter downright scary.

As an aside, aybody know what John's up to these days? He used to be a regular here. Argued a lot seems like. Beyond Belief is yet to be equaled, as an entertaining long range video. I'm sure looking forward to Shawns and Goodgroupers!

 

[tjonh2001]

i would like to know what hes is up to myself. the show has gone down hill since he left. i am surprised that no one else here has tried to make a show like this, there is no doubt that i didnt know how to do this until i watched there show years ago. i guess i can blame them for all the money and time. i guess its also johns falt about my trophy room getting cluttered.

 

[WildcatB]

Fact is, with a solid front and rear rest, all a body has to do is break the trigger without pulling the crosshairs off. I can set up the vast majority and coach them through a succesful trigger break.

Most folks can learn to shoot long in a day!

The real work and experience comes in setting up the equipment and reading wind. Load development, drop testing, etc. I'm not saying long range shooting doesn't require experience. I'm not saying inexperienced shooters should be flinging lead and hoping. I'm saying these guys are shooting fully tuned and tested rifles and ammo. They are shooting from adequate rests. And they are being coached through the set up and shooting process. Perhaps they should explain this!

I teach a one day long range shooting class. A full half my students have never shot past 300 yards. Not once has one left at the end of the day without consistently ringing steel at 1k. Instruction can leapfrog you through years of learning!

Again, I'm not taking issue with the idea poorly equiped, unaided, inexperienced shooters shouldn't be taking long shots. Or the seeming hypocricy on the show. Seems what is needed is a little better clarification of the shooting situations. I must admit the only shows I've seen are the videos. Perhaps the shows have deteriorated since Mr. Burns moved on.

I just want to point out, it really isn't that difficult! Seems a lot of folks have the misconception long range hunting is extremely complex and difficult. Aint so! Not that it can't be! However, I have coached several green shooters through thier first long range kills. These kills were made using my (properly tested and set up) equipment, and basically my experience. There's nothing wrong with that!

Great summery about the long range shooting process. I couldn't agree more. Before I found this site, I thought it would be impossible for me to hit a 10" gong at 1000 yards. I followed the steps outlined in the articles and posting on this site for setting up a gun, developing loads, a drop chart, and practiced my trigger pull quite a bit (still do). Then on my second shot at 1000 yard the gong started swinging. The first shot missed because I didn't adjust for windage. I've been hooked ever since.

By the way, NOBODY that I tell about it believes it. Even relatives and life long friends, until they see it.


Paul

 

[eddybo]

PSTIMAC,

I hear ya on that nobody beleives until they see it. I guess that is one reason I have started so many guys down this path.....I hope they do not get mad at me because they will be forever broke and in search of reloading componants.

Once the steel rings they are hooked....it is like crack I am telling ya

 

[cowboy]

To answer the question of what John Burns is up to - go to www.greybullprecision.com

 

[grit]

Beautiful rifles, hell of an effective system. I hope he does well.