The Ultimate Hunting Bullet

[floyd kittrell]

Yes Sir , I have been using their products for 30+ years , The 168TTSX and the 175 LRX both open around 1500FPS , I have a chart I made by calling Barnes about bottom speeds for most all their 30 cal Bullets , I love them , the 130 is my normal go to for anything below Elk . I think I own all the remaining ( 500+) 130xbt nickel plated Lazerheads in existence which my old barrel Patriot and old barrel Warbird loved , bug hole loads .

 

[robert l]

my opinion only and not directed at anyone in particular,

get a bigger cartridge with a larger caliber bullet, there are far too many people out in the field these days with mini guns that barely carry enough energy to kill a bunny beyond 500 yards, they preach shot placement then shoot at game and go on a blood trail/tracking excursion, *** ?

If you shot an animal with a rifle, it MUST go down STAT ! if not .... you are simply mortally wounding it and waiting for it to eventually die, then high five each other on your prowess

get a bigger gun and learn how to use it, where the hell did all the MEN go ? all I hear these days is terrified little beeches freaking out over a bit of recoil

Amen brother, and they have to have a six pound rifle because they cant carry a 13 pound rifle and tote that thing up and down the hills like you own the f-ing thing.

 

[robert l]

I'm waiting for the Star Trek Photon Projectile Rifle that cooks your deer for you at the same time it kills it. Or better yet, a bullet that envelopes the critter within a force field and then pressure cooks it for you. Hmmmm, I'm hungry for some deer meat now.

I hope you are hungry.

 

[drakehammer]

There are a lot of good bullets being suggested here, but I am not looking for the best alternative or compromise. I was hoping to start a discussion about how the ultimate LR hunting bullet would be constructed. My submission would be a VLD partition.

I shoot deer with 168 Bergers from a 7 rem Mag. That does a great job. But, I did have one not exit at 25yds on a large broad side buck. He died in view 75 yds later, but there was no blood trail in fresh snow. Seems like the same bullet with a Partion would have exited.

Whatever it takes to increase accuracy and BC of the Partition. Luckily some of those things accomplish both goals. Whoever mentioned it though, I don't think a really good boat-tail Nosler Partition would be possible as the jacket is made today. Accuracy problems associated with base deformation wouldn't be much different than they are today. But what do I know...maybe load a NPT backwards and see what you get???

Regarding the second part of your post, my family killed 6 really good whitetails this past season with 168 Berger Classic Hunters out of one 7mm08. Anchored the largest one with a steeply quartering away shot, four of them made it 35-50 yards and piled up with large behind the shoulder exit wounds, one made it about 100 yards after slipping one head-on between the chest and passenger side shoulder out behind the off side shoulder. All distances were ~85 yards. Massive damage in every scenario. Expected more DRTs though. Concluded that a bigger fuel tank to get more velocity might have created the hydrostatic shock I was looking for. IDK though. Experiment complete. Saw nothing but DRTs with 120 NBTs on five or six different animals out of the same rifle at that range.

 

[Dudley45]

I have long been a fan of two bullet types:

1. The Partition/A frame design
2. The VLD/High bc, penetrate 2" and open violently dumping energy design

These are very different models, but to me it has always seemed that the best of both worlds would be a VLD shaped Partition with a thinner jacket that would penetrate 2", open aggressively, but still retain some mass to ensure an exit.

Basically, I think it is time for Nosler to modernize the Partition. Don't blast me tradition NP fans, I would suggest doing this as a 2nd offering, not a replacement. The traditional NP still has it's place for shorter ranges and tougher game.

Thoughts?

 

[Dudley45]

Nosler did have a better partition bullet when they hooked up with Winchester "The Partition Gold " with the sleeve in the bottom of the bullet. They really held together. I buy a DZ boxes if they would start making them again..

 

[del2les]

TX Badger said: ↑
"There are a lot of good bullets being suggested here, but I am not looking for the best alternative or compromise. I was hoping to start a discussion about how the ultimate LR hunting bullet would be constructed. My submission would be a VLD partition."

Partition designed bullets are not the best LR designs for stability nor precision, and while the old open base military match 30 cal. 175 FMJBT used a similar base design you are suggesting and shot fairly well for its time, they were eclipsed by the modern JHPBT match designs with solid bases. Because of the above mentioned weaknesses, we haven't really seen these old open base designs used in demanding LR/ELR shooting sports for a long time.

Thus, most all modern bullet designers use a variation of the closed base JHP with varied constructions and tips in their attempt to achieve what you are describing and wanting. As someone who has hand swaged numerous bullet designs for the past 40 years and understands the difficulty in achieving the wide range of performance on varied distances, many of the modern LR hunting bullets are extremely close to that perfect bullet. However, we shooters, especially LR comp and ELR shooters/hunters, are always searching for something better.

 

[Swamplord]

Nosler did have a better partition bullet when they hooked up with Winchester "The Partition Gold " with the sleeve in the bottom of the bullet. They really held together. I buy a DZ boxes if they would start making them again..

I still have 4 boxes of the 30 cal 180 gr Partition Gold bullets along with 180 gr Fail Safe, left overs from my 300 Win Mag days, all 3 worked very well on moose out to 400 yards but never shot anything further than that with them

 

[Gone Ballistic]

I killed my first elk with an original Nosler Partition in 25/06 117gr. that had cylindrical grooves like a record, I assume made from turning on a lathe. They changed in the 70's to current manufacturing procedures.
While sectional density and retained weight were once the standard bullets were held accountable to, fragmentation lethality became more the norm once the manufacturing process discovered how to insert plastics into the bullet tips. With the new aerodynamics they could achieve by elimination of tip deformation and new bonding technics employed, manufactures looked at Ballistic Coefficients designing bullets to deliver one shot kills at all yardage with variable expansion, fragmentation and deep penetration. The Nosler Accubond serves as an excellent example.

 

[Ingwe]

The ABLR has some issue with fragmentation at closer ranges and high velocity, so much so, a few around here cal them Accubombs.

I don't know about that. Here's a 7mm Rem Mag 175gr Accubond LR that struck a an 800lb Zebra broadside at 180 yards, BROKE the shoulder, destroyed both lungs, and was under the skin on the off side.

A big bulky Zebra at close range, smashed in the shoulder, is a pretty good test for a bullet....look at the pic

 

[del2les]

I don't know about that. Here's a 7mm Rem Mag 175gr Accubond LR that struck a an 800lb Zebra broadside at 180 yards, BROKE the shoulder, destroyed both lungs, and was under the skin on the off side.

A big bulky Zebra at close range, smashed in the shoulder, is a pretty good test for a bullet....look at the pic

That one looks like it performed well enough, but a few of us have experienced erratic behavior on occasions. Most of my experience with the ABLR has been in the 30 cals in a couple of 300RUMs, 190 and 210grs, and the 190 is one I have seen completely fragment on a shoulder hit on a fair elk. Granted, I don't usually recommend to shoot shoulders, but the guy had an unexpected close shot, under 100, and he took what was showing. The bullet fragmented and required another shot to stop the animal. When there is some distance to slow the ABLR down, it has performed well.

The 210 ABLR seems to work better in our 300RUMs.

 

[Ingwe]

That one looks like it performed well enough, but a few of us have experienced erratic behavior on occasions. Most of my experience with the ABLR has been in the 30 cals in a couple of 300RUMs, 190 and 210grs, and the 190 is one I have seen completely fragment on a shoulder hit on a fair elk. Granted, I don't usually recommend to shoot shoulders, but the guy had an unexpected close shot, under 100, and he took what was showing. The bullet fragmented and required another shot to stop the animal. When there is some distance to slow the ABLR down, it has performed well.

The 210 ABLR seems to work better in our 300RUMs.

Can't argue with your experience

My shoulder **** was at 180 so still going 2,800 FPS and recovery weight was 77gr out of 175....essentially, all of the lead was gone but as you can see the base/copper was intact

 

[dsteve931]

You must pick the bullet for the job u want to do - I have always found Sierra will never take u down the wrong path.

 

[nicholasjohn]

There isn't one...
Too many different types of animals on this planet to hunt.
I won't send a bonded bullet through a W/T deer or pronghorn.
I also won't send a SP into an elk or bear.

I've used the Swift A-Frame on a couple dozen deer, from full-sized mule deer bucks to small-ish whitetail does, and I have been tickled pink with the performance. Minimal meat damage, and only a couple of animals moved after being hit. Exit wounds were nickel to quarter-sized in all cases. I didn't shoot anything beyond about 300 yards, so I can't comment on long-range performance. I will say this, though - an elk / moose bullet in the 30-06 works just fine for me on deer.