Your opinion - which should i buy???

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by scotsgun, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. scotsgun

    scotsgun Well-Known Member

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    Guys,

    Your opinions please. I'm seeking a replacement workhorse rifle that will generally be used and abused in dense Scottish woodland for deer stalking. Now reliability and dependability are more important than any fancy new hot calibres so i've decided on a .270 win.

    I've sourced two rifles and would value your opinion:

    1. I can pick up a basic new Savage 111. Black plastic stock, blued metal and that's about it. Mods will include replacing the stock, fitting a moderator and fitting a decent Zeiss scope.

    2. Second option in a second hand Winchester 70 Featherweight that has seen very little use. It's a little bit cheaper than the savage, but not enough to matter. Mods will include replacing the stock, fitting a moderator and Zeiss scope.
    pics of the Winchester are below:

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    So, which would you choose???
     
  2. cowboy

    cowboy Well-Known Member

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    Just out of curiousity - is a moderator over there what a muzzle break or recoil reducer is over here?

    If you are looking for an opinion - I'd vote for the Savage.
    Haven't seen one yet that I would classify as "bad". Vast majority of the ones I have been around are real shooters. Not only that - you can change the barrel out on your own should you ever choose and there are a lot of parts now available from various sources. Savage quality for an over the counter rifle is as good as it gets for the price.
     

  3. scotsgun

    scotsgun Well-Known Member

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    Cowboy, a moderator is what you guys would call a silencer. A pretty regular addition to any stalking rifle here in the UK. All my stalking/hunting rifles have one.

    Thanks for your vote.
     
  4. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    +1 w/cowboy. Unless your willing to borescope the Winchester if it's being sold by someone unknown to you. IMHO I wouldn't buy any used rifle again from someone I don't know unless I could check it.
     
  5. ovastafford

    ovastafford Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Chas. Check it out and if it looks good go with the winchester. I have killed quite a few mulies with that same gun and caliber. Good Luck!
     
  6. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Model-70 Win ALL THE WAY!!!!! Hey guys Im not trying to make enemies here, but youd be hard pressed to give me a Savage, and think Id be seen in public with it if there was a Winchester anywhere near by.
    The phrase ''this aint your fathers Oldsmobile'' and ''the NEW Savage'' are one and the same to me. It may be newer........but its still a Savage or Oldsmobile IMO.
    Yes there are many whod disagree. But my whole family has trusted Winchester for generations, and Im no exeption. My opinion will not change. If you like Savage more power to you. But Im solidly in Winchester's corner. Better trigger. Better fit and finnish, and its a legacy, and an icon here in America with a history of helping keep America free. That may, or may not mean much to folks in Scotland, but it does to me here, and is part of the reason for my opinion. ''The riflemans rifle'' hands down over the Savage.
    Oh ya and accuracy has not been a problemb with any in my collection.
    Sorry Cowboy, and Chas1. This is the first time I know of that we've disagreed Chas1, but its on a matter of deep rooted opinion and love for my Winchesters, that I gotta dissagree. I here ya on the used gun opinion tho.
     
  7. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    winmag, no disagreement. Whether a sav, remy, win or whatever i'd borescope it only because you never know how many rounds have been down any rig or how well the barrel/gun was cleaned/taken care of. I wasn't implying to borescope because it's a win. I've owned and liked Winchesters and used to feel that way about remy's but remy's quality has gone down hill generally speaking. No offense, I think we're on the same page. lol:)
     
  8. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    id have the headspace checked on the winchester and buy it. i cant imagine it looking that good outside and not be good inside.
    that said, savage is also a tradition in this country.
    and they sure are giving both remington and winchester a lesson in what shooters want.
    tradition be damned, those old model 70s couldnt hold up to the new savages as for perfofmance.
    how many shooters are using the actions?
    tradition is why the britts lost our war for independence.
    and its why winchester is in the toilet compared to savage.
     
  9. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Yobuck, I did not know Savage ever contributed in that way. I apologise for my lack of knowledge on that matter. As for the Savage/Mossberg action....Well, yes its strong. rough as a cobb but strong. To me its like buying a Chevy for your mode of transportation,( I love Chevy's) and then having to admit its actually a Chevy Geo because it was the cheapest reliable form of transportation to get untill you can afford something better. Ya it works. Times are tight, and Savage has a large following. Most of wich from what Ive seen buy the gun, throw away everything but the action and build a cheap as possible ''custom rig''. As for tradition, where was Savage when the top pics for custom builds were THE OLD(as you stated) Win model-70, Rem 700, and 98 Mauser. Now that you can ''can'' the bbl and ''switch'' on a whim on a cheap, but strong action, folks like em. Im not a ''walmart'' kinda guy. I get the best I can afford, and Savage is just not my opinion of the best I can afford. They have come up in the world, but to me they'll still always be a Savage.
    The Britts lost the war of our Independance because of being streached way too thin to cover thier investments, and having to fight on too many fronts in too many parts of the world. And in part thanks to the French who only helped us because they werent ''big fans'' of the Britts. Combine that with the grace of God, and great men with unimaginable intestinal fortitude, fighting for thier freedom, and willing to adapt tactics taught to us by the Indians and America was born. If youd like you can find cuontless referances of militia and minute men picking up brown bess muskets. German Jegers with rifled bbls were way more accurate, and used for picking off the ''leaders'', but were so uncommon durring that war they had very little influence compared to hit and run Indian tactics, and keeping the enemy off balance. When confronted by an overwhelming force, offensive gurrila warfare has ''traditionaly'' been the best defense all over the world. The Brits had no counter for that kind of fight. So your ''tradition be damned'' has some merrit, however Overwhelming force with a well regulated army would've prevailed eventually, had they stuck to it. But as stated before they were spread too thin. I for one am very glad our forefathers had the gutts to do what they did, (and had ''traditionaly'' been done by people for centuries in every corner of the globe) and that the Britts pulled out of the fight.

    That scares the hell out of me especially in todays world, and America being held to a higher standard than the rest of the world. Thank God for our special forces doing what needs to be done covertly.

    Opinions vary. If you like Savage more power to ya. I like Winchester. So we dissagree...........oh well. As long as your happy with yours for your reasons, and Im happy with mine for my reasons, and in the end we are both in search of bettering ourselves as shooters, then we have that in common.
    Opinions are the hardest things to change in a person. Im not trying to change yours. You called me on Savage helping defend our freedoms. I apologised and will take your word for thier service to our country. But I think your comparison of Savage compared to Winchester has too many holes to hold water.

    My vote has been cast for aiding you in your choice Scottsgun. Im sorry for temporararily interupting your thread. Good luck in your choice, and I hope you have great results and success with your pick of either rifle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  10. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Savage with no holds barred, there are four in my collection; You will find it necessary to replace the cheap factory stock (unless it's the accu-stock). The accu-trigger on the other hand is, in my opinion, the very best factory trigger on the market right now (sorry winmag). The barrels made by Savage have proven to be of the most accurate factory barrels made. Couple a strong action with the best factory trigger (IMHO), with their notoriously accurate factory barrel & a quality stock..... I believe you will be VERY pleased with the outcome.
     
  11. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    Outlaw6.0, Win or Sav...I don't have any dog in this one but when you say:

    The barrels made by Savage have proven to be of the most accurate factory barrels made.

    Is that fact or your opinion?
     
  12. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    I shoot competitively and am Very focused on accuracy and then Aesthetics. If you read my posts this is already known and one reason my rifles are built from the ground up so I get both.

    IF I WAS forced to pick a factory rifle where all I did was buy or load ammo and go shoot----no question the Savage would be my choice. Do I think it is the most accurate rifle being built by a commercial company right now yes. IMHO it is also the least attractive sans the Browning but as a Great Man Once Said “THE ONLY INTERESTING RIFLE IS AN ACCURATE RIFLE”!!!!!!!
     
  13. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Chas1,

    A couple facts come to mind when I analyze your question, please take them for what they area worth.
    1.) An interview with Bo Clerke posted in Shooting Times (i think) a couple years back, Bo has been involved in Mil Spec barrel advancements & construction, Numerous analytical investigations & Quoted by the magazine as being on the forefront of barrel technology & development (not my words). When asked who makes the most accurate factory barrels his answer was Savage makes the most accurate factory barrels hands down.

    2.) I have a Savage model 10 BVSS in 22-250, after I decided to add more zip to the old girl I had the barrel removed and rechambered in 22-243. My gunsmith who has worked with barrels from every major manufacturer you can think of called me in to pick up the completed rifle. When I arrive, he tells me he cannot believe what he found when rechambering. He stated that particular barrel was the most concentric barrel he had ever seen, it showed more concentricity than all the Krieger, Hart, Lilja, Douglas etc barrels he has ever installed. Of course making the long story short the rifle shoots ~1/4MOA, I wish I could give you the concentricity details but I'm no gunsmith & this happened a couple years ago (i've slept since then!). Obviously all run out was measured with a dial caliper... he still talks about that barrel.

    These are the facts I have, take them for what they are worth, just another .02 in the age old arguement. Thanks for asking, I'm going to research the Bo Clerke article & if I find it I will post a hyperlink to it for everyone to enjoy.

    Good shooting fellas!!
     
  14. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I would take that model 70 winchester and freefloat the barrel and bed the action. Leave that stock on it. That particular rifle is a very nice rifle and I think you would be satisfied with it. The savage would also do anything you want. I would get the new savage with the accutrigger and accustock if you go that route. They are very good shooters and you don't have to do anything to them unless you just want to spend some money.