Wont chamber fire formed brass?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by daveosok, Aug 13, 2002.

  1. daveosok

    daveosok Guest

    I have on one account seen an off center chamber, once fired brass would not fit after sizing only the neck portion.
    It was on a Savage 110 Fp in 308 Win, this I presume is a remington and may not be the same case.
     
  2. moosehunter

    moosehunter Well-Known Member

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    Its a model 70 action with about 100rds through the new barrel. I recently got my Hornady neck size die and have used it a few times with no problem. The unsized brass does not chamber either in this bunch. It better not be an off center chamber. Tonight Im going to pull the bullets, take the ball and pin out of the FL die and run the powder charged case into it then reseat the bullets.
     

  3. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Had a similar problem and this is how I checked.

    1) look at the area of the case just in front of the belt. If this has expanded to the same diameter of the belt then this could be your problem. Loads are too hot for the brass you are using. One of those collet belt resizers is in order. The FL die will not size this area adequately.

    2) try to rechamber the fire formed, neck sized brass. If it does not go in, rotate the brass and try again. Continue to do this and if the brass does chamber, mark the orientation and try another case. If this is a commom problem then the chamber is not square with the bolt face. The best solution will be to resize in a FL die. Resize just enough so that the bolt firms up just as it closes. This should not affect accuracy but could lead to shorter case life.

    3) if the case does not go in because it is now too long (not because it is bent), you are probably running high pressures or the headspace is too big. Look for a shiny ring near the belt. You can use a body die or partial size with the full length die just enough to bump the shoulder back a smidge.

    Many times chambers are cut on the small side for target work and any case growth can lead to stiff chambering.

    I am guessing that the case length is within specs and that the bullet is not jamming into the lands.

    Let me know how it turns out...

    Jerry
     
  4. moosehunter

    moosehunter Well-Known Member

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    Good to hear from you again Jerry. Im not to anxious to chamber any more of this lot because of having to pound them out with a hammer. Believe me I was sweating acid when I had that steel rod down the new stainless barrel and beating it with a hammer. I was not as nervous when I got married the first time. Mind you though a stainless barrel is made to outlast most marriages.
     
  5. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    With your push feed model 70, all you need to do is use your finger pressure. Don't cram it in with the bolt. You can close the bolt on the case but if there is any resistance to close, you know the case won't fit.

    Look at how far an unfired case goes in then compare with the fired cases. Chances are if you rotate the fired case and try pushing into the chamber, it will eventually fit. This would be bad news as this indicates a chamber that is not square with the bolt.

    The case will just need very little pressure from the cleaning rod to pop out. Roll the case on a hard flat surface and look at the head and sides. If the case is bent, it will wobble noticeably.

    Any visible signs of pressure or bulges on the case? Any shiny rings or burnishes? Did you try using your FL die to size just enough to bump the shoulder back?

    If you want to discuss further, drop me an email...

    Jerry
     
  6. moosehunter

    moosehunter Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to have a go at it soon as I get my house work done. I just had another brain fart. What if brass is fired in a fairly tight chamber when the barrel is quite warm, therefore expanded. Now the barrel shrinks more than the brass does cause the linear coifficiant of thermal exp. for steel is higher than brass, being a harder metal. Now the brass is actually larger than the chamber.Make sense or am I having a 70's flashback?
     
  7. moosehunter

    moosehunter Well-Known Member

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    Ok, here's what I did. I tried the turn and rechamber thing with several of this batch of brass and no go. then I dug through my cans of 1, 2 and 3 times fired brass and it all chambered no problem. I took a few of the others and neck sized them and tried again and they again chambered no problem. It seems to be this one bunch of once reloaded Winchester brass, all fired the same day, that is giving the problem. Got me wondering fer sure. I do know I was firing some warm loads that day and had a buddy at the target with a radio so not much cool down time. What do you think of the hot chamber theory? Its about all I can think of right now. I miked the brass compared to others and I can only see a few thou. diff. in certain areas. The webs are all the same, just the bodys are .002 different. Damn, these custom chambers are fussy.
     
  8. moosehunter

    moosehunter Well-Known Member

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    I loaded up some rounds for my 300 win mag match stainless barrel last night. The brass is Winchester, once reloaded and fired in this rifle. I neck sized, trimmed and neck turned then loaded 240 MK's. They stick in the chamber to the point of having to bugger one up by pounding it out with a hammer. This has not happened before, why now?
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi Moosehunter,
    I had this happen once before also, you can change the case demenisions by just neck sizing.
    On my 22-250 when I just necked sized some casing they would not go back into the chamber, I was using a FL die to just resize the neck. No good doing that way.
    You will need to FL size to make sure that the case is to proper size at the "web" area, that mybe where they are sticking. Also check "headspace".
    Hope this helps.

    Got to thinking also that being you are using a 300 Mag your problem is probably going to be the area just above the "belt" on case. Most dies won't size this area. There is a gentlemen out here that make a special die for sizing thes type cases and it works very good.
    Never have any more problems after using this die. http://larrywillis.com/

    [ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: Coyote Hunter ]

    [ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: Coyote Hunter ]
     
  10. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    I don't think the barrel heat is an issue. I just go my automatic weapons that get really hot and they have no problems with functioning. Sure they have fairly generous chambers but I don't think metal moves that much.

    I guess you have a real life example of when you change a component, any component, you need to start loads over again.

    I found the same thing in several of my rifles. Some brass just doesn't tolerate the same loads. Doesn't mean the brass is bad, just not the same.

    A nice tight chamber helps with case life and accuracy, so I would be willing to adjust my loads accordingly.

    Good luck...

    Jerry