Which long range target rifle to buy

[MudRunner2005]

My weak, old, and feable 7RM is pushing 168 VLD's over 3,100 fps from a 26" barrel. I'd say that's not too shabby for cartridge introduced in 1962, that has proven to thrive over the decades thanks to modern bullet and powder technology.

On that note, I picked up my Brownington custom from my smith today...Yes, it's an A-Bolt II, yes it has a Remington barrel on it. And yes, some slight load development and she'll be ready to put some meat in the freezer. Call me Dr. Frankengun, cause I just built a monster. BTW, factory 26" Remington sporter barrels are thicker all the way down than factory Browning barrels... Also, you can turn down and re-thread the tennon for Browning metric threads and not lose any barrel length in doing so. Just FYI incase someone needs a quick and cheap fix for their A-Bolt II. $100 ebay barrel, and a trip to the smitty and it's got 9 more lives left.

 

[the shotty]

So I'll throw my $.02 in. I personally wouldn't worry so much about matching ballistics as you should be plugging in the numbers for your particular rifle and not using one set of ballistics. If this is a practice and range gun for high rounds I would stay away from magnums I.e. 7 mag, the life of your barrel will go down, your going to use more powder and you'll be dealing with more kick or muzzle blast if you decide on putting a brake on it.

260 vs 308 you have to decide on a few things. As you pointed out there are any number of options for components and even factory options for ammo for the 308 and you have bullet commonality with the 300. You get none of these with the 260 and basically a good offering for the CM if you can find it. The upside is a better wind correction if you can push the bullet hard enough. I don't mean to discourage the 6.5 as that's one of my favorites you just have to weigh that for yourself.

And lastly as to rifles, what rifle and even stock design may be different depending on your shooting style/position. For instance I prefer a more traditional stock when I'm running ridges and doing more of a spot and stock type of hunt that I don't particularly expect to shoot prone but can make do if a prone shot comes up. On the other hand my high round guns I prefer to shoot prone and much prefer a more vertical grip. Something to to concider anyway in how you envision using this gun. On another note I throw my vote in for a savage, they tend to shoot well out of the box and very easy to work on yourself if you get bored and want a change with a number of companies making barrels ready to go for
Around $300. Anyway, sorry for the spitballing hope some of it helped.

 

[catorres1]

Man... If you could find a good rifle with a 1in10 twist... Then you'd be able to throw the berger hybrid 215s downrange, with a BC of .696... Or even the 230s with a .719. I haven't seen any mention of a muzzle brake, but I have seen you comment on recoil. Is a brake something you couldn't or wouldn't use? I find that for my 300 wm... With 168 vlds, it shoots quite gently at speeds in excess of 3000 fps with a brake... Lighter recoil than my 308. Now on the other hand... When I push the 215s at speeds from 2975 to 3017, even with the brake, I was left with bruises shooting from an 8.5lb setup.

Have you considered a sendero or laredo... For your heavy rig?

On the break, no, I am not a break kind of guy. I am somewhat used to recoil, my most shot gun this year was a 9 pound 375, slinging 260's at 2750 and 300's at over 2600, almost all off the bench for testing. I just don't like breaks, and I find I can get on with the recoil okay. Going to a 300 will be lowering my recoil by about a 3rd, and recoil velocity by 15% or so.

On the Sendero or Laredo, the cost on these is unfortunately out of my range. I need to pick up a rifle in the low 7's or high 6's to make it all fit together. Otherwise, I probably would, I'd love to have one!. But then again, maybe if I had 1300 or so to spend right now, I might just have a Vanguard put together for me in 6.5 and be golden.

Honestly, I think if I could trust that I will not need to dump money into it to make it shoot, I might just grab the Remmy LR. I think a downloaded 7mm is going to work just fine for me if I can just get the accuracy. But the only review I have read of it was not exactly glowing in all respects, and I don't want another project gun that will enrich my local smith. I want it done and dusted and be off to the range.

That's what makes me scared of this rifle.

 

[catorres1]

So I'll throw my $.02 in. I personally wouldn't worry so much about matching ballistics as you should be plugging in the numbers for your particular rifle and not using one set of ballistics. If this is a practice and range gun for high rounds I would stay away from magnums I.e. 7 mag, the life of your barrel will go down, your going to use more powder and you'll be dealing with more kick or muzzle blast if you decide on putting a brake on it.

260 vs 308 you have to decide on a few things. As you pointed out there are any number of options for components and even factory options for ammo for the 308 and you have bullet commonality with the 300. You get none of these with the 260 and basically a good offering for the CM if you can find it. The upside is a better wind correction if you can push the bullet hard enough. I don't mean to discourage the 6.5 as that's one of my favorites you just have to weigh that for yourself.

And lastly as to rifles, what rifle and even stock design may be different depending on your shooting style/position. For instance I prefer a more traditional stock when I'm running ridges and doing more of a spot and stock type of hunt that I don't particularly expect to shoot prone but can make do if a prone shot comes up. On the other hand my high round guns I prefer to shoot prone and much prefer a more vertical grip. Something to to concider anyway in how you envision using this gun. On another note I throw my vote in for a savage, they tend to shoot well out of the box and very easy to work on yourself if you get bored and want a change with a number of companies making barrels ready to go for
Around $300. Anyway, sorry for the spitballing hope some of it helped.

Spitball away, it's helpful!

Your first comment about the ballistics is very helpful. I see the component availability as a very strong point. This gun is strictly for shooting targets long range and the purpose of that is because the barrel on the 300 will heat up too fast for all day class shooting. I once said to someone, it's almost like being a 22 for me in that it's a substitute trainer....hence my desire for a near identical stock and trigger.

So if everyone agrees that the difference in the drift characteristics makes no difference, and that the 308 is sufficient for 1k in this context (no competition or anything), then this is probably the way to go. In the future, I can always have it rebarreled to 260, I suppose, if I get more serious in the target shooting sense. But for now, it's just a 'fun gun' and substitute trainer. To put it another way, i's entire purpose is to make me a better shooter of the 300. So it should feel the same, work the same etc...if at all possible....and allow me to practie with high volume where the 300 won't allow me to do so...all for the sake of being a better shot when I am hunting with the 300.

 

[catorres1]

I agree. To each his own but when I read he was considering a 150 in a 7 mag he won't realize the old 7's full potential..

Yeah, these loads were light practice loads, not anywhere close to full power...running something like 2780. But for them to be worthwhile, they needed that fraudulent BC nosler put out. I found that Litz posting where he tested them and re-ran the numbers with his findings on the the LRAB's I used in my simulations. The 150 for the 7 mag has to increase velocity by about 100 fps or something like that to maintain those drift number....thereby increasing recoil to the same level as the 168s.

They looked great for practice loads with that BC, not so much with the real life BC's...

 

[gohring3006]

Yeah, these loads were light practice loads, not anywhere close to full power...running something like 2780. But for them to be worthwhile, they needed that fraudulent BC nosler put out. I found that Litz posting where he tested them and re-ran the numbers with his findings on the the LRAB's I used in my simulations. The 150 for the 7 mag has to increase velocity by about 100 fps or something like that to maintain those drift number....thereby increasing recoil to the same level as the 168s.

They looked great for practice loads with that BC, not so much with the real life BC's...

yea there's no free lunch in long range shooting. Light bullets give low recoil but don't have high BCs. Magnums give high velocity with heavy high BC bullets but you get recoil and less barrel life. I think a .308 is your best answer in a short action. But it seems hard to find a 10 twist for the heavies. That's why I chose a 30-06 it come in a 10 twist and it shoves the heavies a little better and has comparable barrel life..

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

yea there's no free lunch in long range shooting. Light bullets give low recoil but don't have high BCs. Magnums give high velocity with heavy high BC bullets but you get recoil and less barrel life. I think a .308 is your best answer in a short action. But it seems hard to find a 10 twist for the heavies. That's why I chose a 30-06 it come in a 10 twist and it shoves the heavies a little better and has comparable barrel life..

Catorres1... My apologies for the following sidetrack question...

Gohring... Have you ever pushed the berger 215s or 230s out of your '06? I would think the recoil could be somewhat abusive on hotter loads, but if the powder was cut back a bit, it might be a heck of a shooter at distance with these bullets. I've been considering loading some into my 308.., but I'm not sure it has enough umph to push them at distance to make the most of the bullets. The '06 on the other hand seems like it might be a good choice just down from the 300 wm for throwing these heavies.

 

[gohring3006]

Gohring... Have you ever pushed the berger 215s or 230s out of your '06? I would think the recoil could be somewhat abusive on hotter loads, but if the powder was cut back a bit, it might be a heck of a shooter at distance with these bullets. I've been considering loading some into my 308.., but I'm not sure it has enough umph to push them at distance to make the most of the bullets. The '06 on the other hand seems like it might be a good choice just down from the 300 wm for throwing these heavies.

Not yet, I got good velocity with the 200 smk and imr 4350 so I'm going to get some 215s and try them with 4350. Montanamarine was having some good luck with reloader 17 and the 208 Amax so that's my next project I think 17 ought to shove those 215s pretty fast. I think he ran some 208s in the .308 maybe he will chime in and give some advice on heavies in .308 as for the 230 it seems it might be to heavy for the 06 it is to the point of diminishing returns. I think you start to lose trajectory and velocity so much that it is a loss in performance.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Not yet, I got good velocity with the 200 smk and imr 4350 so I'm going to get some 215s and try them with 4350. Montanamarine was having some good luck with reloader 17 and the 208 Amax so that's my next project I think 17 ought to shove those 215s pretty fast. I think he ran some 208s in the .308 maybe he will chime in and give some advice on heavies in .308 as for the 230 it seems it might be to heavy for the 06 it is to the point of diminishing returns...

Thanks for the reply... I found that in my 300wm... The 215s seem to run fast... 250fps faster than what I expected when pushed by reloader 22. I've got a few 308s... 2 that have 20" 10 twist barrels... And 1 with a 24" 12 twist. If I had a 26" 308 with a 10 twist... I think I might be able to make the 215s perform, but just not so certain with the shorter barrels...or the 12 twist in the longer.

 

[gohring3006]

I think if I could get the 230 to 2500fps in my 06 I would have something...

 

[Greyfox]

Another opinion that the Savage LRP should be checked out. I normally shoot a 6.5-284 Cooper for my hunting out to 1000 yards. For practice and competitive shooting I bought a Savage LRP in 260 Remington. While the heavy barrel results in a weight that is a few pounds heavier than my hunting rig, it has proven to be a superbly accurate shooter that has a good stock and triggger right out of the box requiring no additional cost other than the addition of my mounts, level, and scope. It will consistenly keep five shots inside of 1.5" at 500 yards.

 

[roninflag]

what greyfox said. i would get an LRP for targets. weight is an asset. othjer wise i would get a rme long range.

 

[catorres1]

Okay guys, you've convinced me to give the Savage LRP a look if I can find one to look at. Stock fit is important to me, so I need to get my face on one, and also see what i can realistically get one for.

Barring that, would you choose a 7mag for a practice gun or a 308?

 

[Greyfox]

Okay guys, you've convinced me to give the Savage LRP a look if I can find one to look at. Stock fit is important to me, so I need to get my face on one, and also see what i can realistically get one for.

Barring that, would you choose a 7mag for a practice gun or a 308?

Between those two I would go with the 308.......but I personally prefer the 260 or the 6.5 Creedmore. Great ballistics, accuracy, and low recoil. For targets at the range you mentioned, the 7mag is a little too much, and the barrel life about half.