Which 6mm in long action Remington 700? Quality Brass is issue...
- Thread starter cdherman
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
Catfur
Well-Known Member
I don't think it was a requirement, just a strong desire.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
10-4,
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
Kirby, it was my understanding that the 6-06 & 6-284 shared nearly exact case capacity. What is your performance experience with the 105-107 grainers in the '06 case?
You're right about feeding. My x284 feeds from the HS long action DBM, it's a little klunky, reliable but doesn't have the "smooth as glass" feeling if that makes sense.
t
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
If the 6-284 is loaded so the bullets are seated to the base of the case neck, YES, they are very similar in case capacity. In reality, the 06 has a slight edge in capacity so all else being equal, the 6-06 will produce a bit more velocity with same length barrels but very close.
Main advantage with the 6-06 is that it feeds like its not even there, smooth as butter. That CAN NOT be said for the 6-284, especially if using a staggered feed mag box design such as the standard Rem 700.
Plus, the rebated rim design can at times cause some issues with feeding.
There are no problems at all with the 6-06 for feeding, nice shoulder for feeding, good full diameter rim, nice case length. While its an extreme chambering for sure performance wise, its a dream to build rifles for and if used for its appropriate usages, it does very well.
A 6mm-06 loaded with a good 90-100 gr bullet will do ANYTHING the 25-06 will do with a good 100-110 gr bullet. Both are designed for use on the exact same game species, light to medium big game at moderate ranges. If you want something a bit different, the 6-06 is a fun little round to work with, extreme performance, no fireforming needed, easy to load for.
The 105-107 gr bullets can be easily driven to 3400 fps in standard 24" barrel lengths and longer barrels will drive them to 3500 fps.
Some care must be taken if your looking to run at full velocity potential with these bullets in the 6-06. My main tip, go with a 1-9 twist barrel instead of the 1-8 which conventional wisdom will often recommend. The 1-9 is plenty to fully stabilize these bullets, the slightly lower RPM levels help them on impact a bit better and it also allows higher top velocities with good accuracy then 1-8 twist will offer. That is especially true with the berger and A-Max bullets. The SMK is pretty tough, no real issues there with speed and accuracy. I have driven them over 3600 fps with fine accuracy. That is to hot for a 6-06 by the way!!!
The 6-06 Ack Improved is a round that I get asked a lot about from guys wanting a laser flat trajectory but in all honesty, its just to much capacity for the 6mm and the standard 6-06 takes out best 6mm bullets to their velocity limits with accuracy and its also a much better feeding design then the Improved version.
The best bullets in 6mm just do not seem to offer enough resistance to this large capacity(for a 6mm bore diameter) for consistant powder ignition. I have always had better velocity spreads with the standard 6-06 then I have with its improved brother.
Again, the improved version just does not offer the advantages in velocity either compared to other wildcats on the same case. For example, a 25-06 AI, 6.5mm-06 AI or 280 AI offer 125 to 150 fps over what the parent case with offer with same bullet weight in same barrel lengths. The 6mm-06 AI does not offer this advantage, its much closer to 50-75 fps which in my opinion is just not worth it for the chore of fireforming and again, the velocity spreads just seem to grow with this design, which I believe is simply because we do not have enough resistance to get consistant powder ignition.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
I wrestled over whether to go with a 6-284 or 6-06 and decided on the 6-284. The feeding thing isn't a big deal with me. The 6-284 in my Vanguard action cycles quite well. Maybe not quite as smooth as the 6-06, but IMO, smooth enough. I don't foresee having to to speed cycle it like you might have to with dangerous game or whatever.
I like the overall design of the 284 case a little better, being shorter and fatter with sharper shoulders. It's generally accepted that sharper shoulders slow throat wear. I don't know if there is actually any data to back that up but it seems to be a reasonable theory. I also like that you only have to neck down the Lapua brass form .264 to .243 vs .308 down to .243 I prefer no turn necks if possible and it seems to me necking down from .308 to .243 would lead to more irregularities in the neck wall as well as more steps involved.
In the final analysis, there's not a whole lot of diff between the 2. I like the 6-284
I like the overall design of the 284 case a little better, being shorter and fatter with sharper shoulders. It's generally accepted that sharper shoulders slow throat wear. I don't know if there is actually any data to back that up but it seems to be a reasonable theory. I also like that you only have to neck down the Lapua brass form .264 to .243 vs .308 down to .243 I prefer no turn necks if possible and it seems to me necking down from .308 to .243 would lead to more irregularities in the neck wall as well as more steps involved.
In the final analysis, there's not a whole lot of diff between the 2. I like the 6-284
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
There is certainly nothing wrong with the 6-284, its a hell of a round, I still have one in my safe. The 6-06 is just a logical choice in a long action Rem 700.
You mention that you have to neck down the 30-06 to 6mm and that you prefer necking down the 6.5-284 to 6mm.
Not being a smart *** but have you heard of the 25-06?
I actually really like the Winchester 25-06 brass and have had really good luck with its strength and consistency. Plus you hardly notice its being necked down to 6mm when you run it through a sizing die.Again, NOTHING at all wrong with the 6-284. Its a great chambering but the 6-06 is may be the easiest high performance small bore wildcat out there other then perhaps the 6-250.
They are all good, take your pick, all will make you happy in the end!!!
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
There is certainly nothing wrong with the 6-284, its a hell of a round, I still have one in my safe. The 6-06 is just a logical choice in a long action Rem 700.
You mention that you have to neck down the 30-06 to 6mm and that you prefer necking down the 6.5-284 to 6mm.
Not being a smart *** but have you heard of the 25-06?
Again, NOTHING at all wrong with the 6-284. Its a great chambering but the 6-06 is may be the easiest high performance small bore wildcat out there other then perhaps the 6-250.
They are all good, take your pick, all will make you happy in the end!!!
Yup Kirby, I know what a 25-06 is
Owned one for a few years and loved it.One very big consideration for me in picking the 6-284 was the Lapua brass. The only way to get Lapua brass for a 6-06 is to neck down 30-06 brass. I agree the Winchester brass is OK, but IMO it just doesn't compare to Lapua. The brass issue was my biggest reason for deciding to go with the 6-284.
I agree that the 06 case is a better fit for the 700 action, but... the 284 isn't that bad a fit that it would matter to me. I single feed well over 90% of my rounds in any cartridge and over the years there have only been a handful of times where I have quickly racked another round after the first shot for a follow on. The 6-284 is primarily a PD and Varmint rifle for me. I'll probably shoot a few deer and antelope with it and I don't think I'll be handicapped using it for deer and antelope.
In the end, either one would serve the OP very well gun)
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Yup Kirby, I know what a 25-06 is
One very big consideration for me in picking the 6-284 was the Lapua brass. The only way to get Lapua brass for a 6-06 is to neck down 30-06 brass. I agree the Winchester brass is OK, but IMO it just doesn't compare to Lapua. The brass issue was my biggest reason for deciding to go with the 6-284.
I agree that the 06 case is a better fit for the 700 action, but... the 284 isn't that bad a fit that it would matter to me. I single feed well over 90% of my rounds in any cartridge and over the years there have only been a handful of times where I have quickly racked another round after the first shot for a follow on. The 6-284 is primarily a PD and Varmint rifle for me. I'll probably shoot a few deer and antelope with it and I don't think I'll be handicapped using it for deer and antelope.
In the end, either one would serve the OP very well gun)
Sorry for the smart *** comment!!!
You of course are correct, if you want Lapua brass, 30-06 is only option for the 6-06. And again, you are also dead on in the fact that the Win brass IS NOT equal quality to the Lapua brass. No questions there.
That said, I have found that I can take 100 Winchester 25-06 brass, full length size it down to 6mm-06, trim them all to length, debur case mouth inside and out, debur and true flashhole and then sort cases by weight and come out with a lot of brass with 60-70 that will be pretty much dead on the money weight and capacity wise.
Neck thickness if you want to sort by that will take a few more out for sure but you can easily come up with 50 cases per 100 that are what I would call true match quality from a sorted batch of Win brass.
Will never be as strong, no way around that but I have always been pretty impressed with the Win brass and its case head hardness which allows it to handle much higher chambers then say Rem brass.
I have also found that when necking down a 30 cal as far down as 6mm, often times you start to run into some potential neck thickness issues. Easily correctable by neck turning but I HATE turning necks.
While the Win brass neck run outs may be a bit high on virgin brass, depending on the FL die set up used to neck them down, after shooting them for the first time, they are very good and consistant. Even virgin loads will easily clip 1/2 moa.
So while I certainly concede to your comments about Lapua brass, with a bit of prep work and sorting, you can get some very high quality brass from the Win 25-06 parent cases.
Also agree that the feeding aspect for what we do most of the time is nit picking for sure. A properly set up 6-284 will feed just fine but there are some rifles that just do not behave when building them and you have to put in a couple hours on the bench fine tuning things to get them to feed properly. As a rifle builder, I hate to say it but I do like the ones that you throw together after the precision metal work is done and they just do what they are supposed to.
All that said, a good center feed mag box design or Detachable Mag box solves pretty much all feeding problems, in the case of the DM system, just adds a few bills to the price.
Your points are all dead on the money, agree with all, we are just pulling hairs here between the two!!! Comes down to what brass you want to be honest and that's about it. Great rounds the both of them.
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
Now, if we could actually get mark to actually shoot his 6-284... Sorry brother, had to throw a jab in there.
Kirby, I hear you about the neck turning... I just finished 100pcs of Rem 7mmSAUM, I believe I now have carpal tunnel syndrome
t
Sorry brother, had to throw a jab in there.Kirby, I hear you about the neck turning... I just finished 100pcs of Rem 7mmSAUM, I believe I now have carpal tunnel syndrome
t
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Now, if we could actually get mark to actually shoot his 6-284...
Picking it up tomorrow brother... it gets better barrel life when you don't shoot it
Didn't know you had a 7 SAUM?Kirby, I hear you about the neck turning... I just finished 100pcs of Rem 7mmSAUM, I believe I now have carpal tunnel syndrome
t
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
Picking it up tomorrow brother... it gets better barrel life when you don't shoot it
Didn't know you had a 7 SAUM?
That's great news & yes, yes it does lol
I do, Chad's been screwing with it for a year.... not real happy about that.
t
cdherman
Well-Known Member
Wow, this thread sort of "tuck off"...
I've been working overtime last couple days..
Both the 6mm-06 and 6-284 are intriguing to me. They depart from the "factory load" goal I have had, but each offers some real benefits.
The 6-284 gets me to a wicked nice round, from Lapua Brass, in one stroke. So even the first fire of the brass has a pretty good chance at being good.
The 6mm-06 has its merits too, especially the feeding issue.
But I would be having the work done here in KC by the GAP fellas, long wait I assume, but I am patient. They already told me the think a 6.5-284 is a fine choice for a 700 LA. If they can tweek the feed for 6.5-284, they should be able to deal with 6-284 as well.
I assume dies, reamers and such are not pure unobtaininum for the 6-284?
I've been working overtime last couple days..
Both the 6mm-06 and 6-284 are intriguing to me. They depart from the "factory load" goal I have had, but each offers some real benefits.
The 6-284 gets me to a wicked nice round, from Lapua Brass, in one stroke. So even the first fire of the brass has a pretty good chance at being good.
The 6mm-06 has its merits too, especially the feeding issue.
But I would be having the work done here in KC by the GAP fellas, long wait I assume, but I am patient. They already told me the think a 6.5-284 is a fine choice for a 700 LA. If they can tweek the feed for 6.5-284, they should be able to deal with 6-284 as well.
I assume dies, reamers and such are not pure unobtaininum for the 6-284?
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
I have what I think is a perfect reamer for the 6-284 from PTG. The neck is .281 and the bullet seated no turn case is .275 The fired case necks are still tight enough to seat a bullet without sizing.
There is a good selection of dies available but I would recommend sending a print of the reamer you use to Whidden Gunworks and get a custom FL and seating die made for your chamber. I would recommend an FL die, with or without expander. I would go with an expander. My instruction would be to make the die so it sized the neck down to .271 with a .273 expander to give you .002 tension, or go with an FL die to neck down to .273 without expander. I prefer the expander to move any irregularities in the neck outward. Whidden also provides a depth gauge.
I would be willing to rent you my reamer or you could order one for yourself. The print # is 4198
