what's going on here? Inconsistencies at LR

[EXPRESS]

I am not new to LR shooting, but have become serious about it in say, the last five years.
In 2008 I had two custom rifles built by the best LR smith in the country, one in 6.5-284 the other .300win. Before that I refined a lot of my shooting and reloading mostly with a 6PPC and some hunting rifles and recently I purchased a Blaser R8 Success model with a 6.5x55 barrel and a .338 win mag barrel.
All of these rifle consistently shoot MOA or better at 100.
Now, of all these rifles, the 6PPC excused, only one is truly consistent at LR. The 6.5-284 (the one I've used most) has shot .5MOA groups at 1000 yards, however, sometimes I will get it out and put a shot on my "home" target, which is a sheet of 80x80cm steel at 600 yards, which I can shoot from my house. Some days it will miss the target entirely, then next shot hit. Then it might print a half decent group. Same thing for the .338 win mag. So, I'll get the .300 win out, and print a reliable .5MOA group at predicted POI given whatever wind/meteo conditions I compensate for, if needed.
When friends are over I get that .300 out and have their wives and kids shoot MOA and better groups on the same target, it's just that easy and reliable. It's not fussy about the ammo either.
The standard advice is going to be check your scopes, bases, rings, action screws and the rest. Let's give me the benefit of the doubt that it's all snug, lock tited, and the action screws are even torque measured. Believe me, this has been frustrating me for a long time, so I've been through every variable I can think of.
So I've come to one conclusion with the 6.5-284, which began life as a Remington Ti in 7mm-08. With the factory barrel it wouldn't shoot MOA reliably. Then I got it trued and rebarreled in 7mm-08 by the abovementioned smith, and it didn't shoot any better. So I binned the 7mm-08 idea and went with a 6.5-284, which has good moments and bad days. I've come to suspect that the Ti action just doesn't want to shoot well, though I hear they are fairly sought after and considered accurate actions.
With the other rifles, I just can't put my finger on it. The Blaser barrels have only been tested with the CEB LZR bullets, which I conclude they simply don't like, but even those shoot well at short range then fall apart past 500 yards.
My shooting technique has become easy to apply and well defined over the years, and is basically sound, I just can't get why some of my rifles won't shoot consistently at long range, while notable one, is incredibly accurate and does whatever I expect it to.

 

[4xforfun]

What bullets are you shooting out of each? Do you shoot over wind flags. My point being is that if you shoot lightweight varment bullets out of the 6.5 and heavy LR bullets out of the 300 it may be that you are simply missing the conditions.

More info.

Thanks,
Tod

 

[Barrelnut]

Might be the handloads, cleaning regiment, or barrel heat.

Brass - I weight sort all my brass and keep lots of them based on how many times they have been fired, I anneal the necks every 3 firings.

Node - Do the loads have good ES/SD. Sometimes loads that don't work past 500 yards or so are not setting on a node or have wide ES/SD.

Cleaning - I only clean every 100 rounds or so. Run a snake through about every 40 and it takes the rifle about 4 shots to settle down after the snake. Takes about 10 shots to start settling down after a full cleaning.

Barrel heat - You don't mention barrel weights. A 300 mag can heat up a thin barrel quickly and may start throwing shots. The effect in the summer could be extreme and not as noticeable in the winter.

 

[4xforfun]

Might be the handloads, cleaning regiment, or barrel heat.

Brass - I weight sort all my brass and keep lots of them based on how many times they have been fired, I anneal the necks every 3 firings.

Node - Do the loads have good ES/SD. Sometimes loads that don't work past 500 yards or so are not setting on a node or have wide ES/SD.

Cleaning - I only clean every 100 rounds or so. Run a snake through about every 40 and it takes the rifle about 4 shots to settle down after the snake. Takes about 10 shots to start settling down after a full cleaning.

Barrel heat - You don't mention barrel weights. A 300 mag can heat up a thin barrel quickly and may start throwing shots. The effect in the summer could be extreme and not as noticeable in the winter.

His issue is not with the 300. it is with the 6.5-284.

 

[EXPRESS]

My cleaning regime is basically as follows; I run a bore snake through at the end of each group/string when I get up off the gun. The barrels are all medium weight, and they get a thorough clean every 100 rounds or so. I never let them hear up significantly.

My hand load selection method is usually the ladder method at 300 meters in an indoor range, or, recently by the OCW as well.

I use Lapua brass almost exclusively except for the .338 where I use Nosler custom and the .300 also has a batch of Norma brass. To be honest I don't cull much, but I do throw away any cases that are more than a few grains off the average weight. They all get full case prep, and I use Foster dies.

 

[Barrelnut]

What bullets are you shooting out of each? Do you shoot over wind flags. My point being is that if you shoot lightweight varment bullets out of the 6.5 and heavy LR bullets out of the 300 it may be that you are simply missing the conditions.

More info.

Thanks,
Tod

What about 4xforfun's question above concerning bullet weights being used?

 

[EXPRESS]

I guess my question is; have you come across rifles that should be accurate but just won't shoot to their potential?

 

[EXPRESS]

The bullet weights are matched to the twist rates. The 6.5 shoot 140, 142 and 130 grain with a 1:8 and 1:8.7 in the Blaser. The .338 is 1:10 and shoots 225 grain CEBs though it seems to like the 300SMK better but I only made up 5 rounds to test. I want to try the Berger 300's in that.

The .300, interestingly has a 1:10 twist, but doesn't shoot anything over 168 grains well. I wanted to shoot Berger 220's out of it but it just won't stabilise them. The 220's shot 1.5MOA type groups, the 190's were not much better.

I put some wind flags out and always double check my first guess of the wind with my Kestrel.

 

[4xforfun]

The bullet weights are matched to the twist rates. The 6.5 shoot 140, 142 and 130 grain with a 1:8 and 1:8.7 in the Blaser. The .338 is 1:10 and shoots 225 grain CEBs though it seems to like the 300SMK better but I only made up 5 rounds to test. I want to try the Berger 300's in that.

The .300, interestingly has a 1:10 twist, but doesn't shoot anything over 168 grains well. I wanted to shoot Berger 220's out of it but it just won't stabilise them. The 220's shot 1.5MOA type groups, the 190's were not much better.

I put some wind flags out and always double check my first guess of the wind with my Kestrel.

Berger does not make a 220.

 

[EXPRESS]

Ti was the 220SMK and Berger 190.

 

[barefooter56]

The bullet weights are matched to the twist rates. The 6.5 shoot 140, 142 and 130 grain with a 1:8 and 1:8.7 in the Blaser. The .338 is 1:10 and shoots 225 grain CEBs though it seems to like the 300SMK better but I only made up 5 rounds to test. I want to try the Berger 300's in that.

The .300, interestingly has a 1:10 twist, but doesn't shoot anything over 168 grains well. I wanted to shoot Berger 220's out of it but it just won't stabilise them. The 220's shot 1.5MOA type groups, the 190's were not much better.

I put some wind flags out and always double check my first guess of the wind with my Kestrel.

Have you tried our 200 and 215 grain Hybrid Target bullets in the 300 WM? Because of their HYBRID design these bullets are very tolerant of bullet jump and easy to tune for. Start at .005 off the lands and work back in .005 increments at the lowest powder charge listed for the bullet/powder/cartridge combination you are testing for. Find your bullet seating depth accuracy node then slowly work the load back up checking for accuracy and pressure. More .30 caliber target shooters are using these two bullets probably tan are using our VLD Target bullets. They just seem to work.

 

[toliver]

Could it be a clean cold barrel issue? I get the impression from your post the miss is the first shot? Then you could be chasing it if you saw the impact.

 

[ShootnMathews]

I am not new to LR shooting, but have become serious about it in say, the last five years.
In 2008 I had two custom rifles built by the best LR smith in the country, one in 6.5-284 the other .300win. Before that I refined a lot of my shooting and reloading mostly with a 6PPC and some hunting rifles and recently I purchased a Blaser R8 Success model with a 6.5x55 barrel and a .338 win mag barrel.
All of these rifle consistently shoot MOA or better at 100.
Now, of all these rifles, the 6PPC excused, only one is truly consistent at LR. The 6.5-284 (the one I've used most) has shot .5MOA groups at 1000 yards, however, sometimes I will get it out and put a shot on my "home" target, which is a sheet of 80x80cm steel at 600 yards, which I can shoot from my house. Some days it will miss the target entirely, then next shot hit. Then it might print a half decent group. Same thing for the .338 win mag. So, I'll get the .300 win out, and print a reliable .5MOA group at predicted POI given whatever wind/meteo conditions I compensate for, if needed.
When friends are over I get that .300 out and have their wives and kids shoot MOA and better groups on the same target, it's just that easy and reliable. It's not fussy about the ammo either.
The standard advice is going to be check your scopes, bases, rings, action screws and the rest. Let's give me the benefit of the doubt that it's all snug, lock tited, and the action screws are even torque measured. Believe me, this has been frustrating me for a long time, so I've been through every variable I can think of.
So I've come to one conclusion with the 6.5-284, which began life as a Remington Ti in 7mm-08. With the factory barrel it wouldn't shoot MOA reliably. Then I got it trued and rebarreled in 7mm-08 by the abovementioned smith, and it didn't shoot any better. So I binned the 7mm-08 idea and went with a 6.5-284, which has good moments and bad days. I've come to suspect that the Ti action just doesn't want to shoot well, though I hear they are fairly sought after and considered accurate actions.
With the other rifles, I just can't put my finger on it. The Blaser barrels have only been tested with the CEB LZR bullets, which I conclude they simply don't like, but even those shoot well at short range then fall apart past 500 yards.
My shooting technique has become easy to apply and well defined over the years, and is basically sound, I just can't get why some of my rifles won't shoot consistently at long range, while notable one, is incredibly accurate and does whatever I expect it to.

I've fought my 6.5-284 a lot with poi shift and group sizes changing. I've just recently narrowed it down to the brass. Mine needs annealed every 2 firings it seems. After 2 firings it starts to get hardened enough that they don't all size exactly the same and the groups will open up slightly, to MOA almost, but more annoying is the POI will shift. Sometimes as much as 3" at 100 yards. If I keep it annealed it will hold .35 or smaller groups and hold POI.