Getting them all the same size is no easy task either.
Weighing brass questions
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Andrew Cowling
Well-Known Member
Weight sorting is a waste of time. Case preparation is every thing. I have purchased (Nosler) weight sorted brass. Once the cases were sized, trimmed, inside neck reamed, outside neck turned, primer pockets reamed and flash holes debured those same weight sorted brass had up to a 17 grain spread.
The question is, where is the weight difference? In most cases I have found it to be in the thickness and diameter of the rim. That being the case it is of zero consequence and has no bearing on accuracy. The internal volume IS important NOT the weight of the case.
I have just finished fully match preparing some winchester cases and desided to test this weight sorting myth out. The lightest case weighed 153 grains and the heaviest weighed 179 grains that's a 26 grain difference. Those 2 bullets hit the paper touching. So all that time weight sorting was wasted.
Cheers
Andrew
The question is, where is the weight difference? In most cases I have found it to be in the thickness and diameter of the rim. That being the case it is of zero consequence and has no bearing on accuracy. The internal volume IS important NOT the weight of the case.
I have just finished fully match preparing some winchester cases and desided to test this weight sorting myth out. The lightest case weighed 153 grains and the heaviest weighed 179 grains that's a 26 grain difference. Those 2 bullets hit the paper touching. So all that time weight sorting was wasted.
Cheers
Andrew
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Our mob fixates on shortcuts while ever earning nothing..
Instead, we should consider whys, and whys.
What do you think it means for us when cases weigh the same? Or when they match in capacities? Or when brass hardness matches,, and chamber clearances match?
When does it mean more & most, or less & least?
Instead, we should consider whys, and whys.
What do you think it means for us when cases weigh the same? Or when they match in capacities? Or when brass hardness matches,, and chamber clearances match?
When does it mean more & most, or less & least?
shooter7
Well-Known Member
I weight sorted my last batch of Winchester 300wm brass after it was once fired and uniformly trimmed. Lightest case was 227.2, heaviest 246.9 gr. I managed to get 30 cases that were +/- 3gr from the median weight. It was a bit disheartening.
antelopedundee
Well-Known Member
Did you verify that the water capacity of those 2 cases was essentially the same? I bought some 6.5-06mm Quality Cartridge brass from Graf [in spite of the poor reviews] and had pretty decent weight variation as far as that goes. I think it was 4-5 grains max.
Andrew Cowling
Well-Known Member
So where is the extra weight? In the belt , web or rim? Capacity is for more important than any weights
Andrew Cowling
Well-Known Member
No need. Capacity with powder was at the same level. Firing them confirmed my suspicion, weight means nothing.
Savage 12BVSS
Well-Known Member
To You it means nothing but to others its another small consistancy to follow. It wouldn't be a point that brass makers point out otherwise. They would all just pay no attention like yourself.
Andrew Cowling
Well-Known Member
Maybe so. But when brass manufacturers make a point of saying they have weight sorted brass, then when that brass is fully match prepared to find those weights are now all over the show doesn't say much about their so called weight sorted brass. If a person is that anal about the weight of the brass then use a file and even them up. Capacity is the important bit NOT how much one piece compares to another piece in weight.
I used to weight sort my brass. Now I don't bother as I have found time and time again that it was a WASTE OF TIME. Especially as I have consistantly found that 26 grains difference in case weights shot basically through the same hole.
It is another of those old wives tales that really has little to no bearing on ACTUAL case capacity and accuracy.
But for those who like wasting their time on the bench weighing cases instead of shooting then go for it.
Savage 12BVSS
Well-Known Member
If you are consistantly shooting one hole groups with brass 26gr different in weight I'd say you have it all figured out. No need for you to waste time at the bench, but for me it's all a process I do to make every loaded round as close to the next as possible. My tight groups come with uniformity and consistancy, it's always worked that way for me. Good Shooting
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
There will always be someone that thinks that something is a wast of time. Many of us don't, and
do everything we can to be consistent in everything we do. We/I feel that no matter how small the improvement, the sum of all improvements will produce better accuracy/performance.
An earlier post mentioned Weight sorted brass from a manufacture that was very consistent before he prepped the cases and after prepping, they were all over the place. Weight sorting changed them, so how can you say it was a wast of time. I tried the weight sorted cases, and found them very close but they never shot very well, Because they were just like they came from the factory and had not been prepped, just weighed. The next batch I bought were not even close to the first and the load was totally different. I have also heard that the case heads and extractor groves was where the differences were, so I measured them to get a feel how much error there was. Dimensional'y, it was all most zero. So I then volume tested these factory weight sorted cases and found then all over the place.
Now I don,t buy weight sorted cases any more, and find that good quality brass cases that have been fully prepped Including neck turning, are the most consistent in weight and volume. So my experiences have been that fully prepped cases are easier to find accuracy loads for sooner and
require less testing to get extreme accuracy. So to me anything that improves my accuracy and makes load development easier is worth it.
If a person only wants accuracy between around 1 MOA then there are many steps that may not improve a 1 MOA loading or be measurable. but If you want the most the weapon can produce then any improvement can make a difference when combined with other improvements.
As in all things relating to accuracy, there will always be differences of opinions on what things make a difference or not because of their procedures and needs, I feel that there is nothing that can be ruled out as long as I can see an improvement of a few thousandths in group size or a 1 or 2 Ft/sec improvement in SD's. If anything, it gives Me confidence in my weapon and makes the effort worthwhile.
Just My Opinion
J E CUSTOM
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
A sum of weakness rarely leads to strength.
Everybody seems to think that consistency matters so much(especially when an easy shortcut). But consistently wrong actions do not gain anything, and can be detrimental.
For instance, it's common advice for people to trim all cases to the same length. This, in the name of consistency. However, in itself, this advice is usually not correct, and detrimental to outcome.
Everybody seems to think that consistency matters so much(especially when an easy shortcut). But consistently wrong actions do not gain anything, and can be detrimental.
For instance, it's common advice for people to trim all cases to the same length. This, in the name of consistency. However, in itself, this advice is usually not correct, and detrimental to outcome.
milo-2
Well-Known Member
Tip: If you don't like weighing H2O capacity of brass, substitute a ball powder in place of it. Win 748 in cases up to 40gr capacity mimics the weight of water. Way quicker and if you use a big enough bowl, it's cleaner. Even if it is not spot on, still accomplishing the same thing. I am not one to weigh brass.
I got fed up one day using a dropper or pipet to fill 223 brass. Filling cases under a faucet never works for me, 1lb can of 748 was on my bench and the light bulb came on.
I got fed up one day using a dropper or pipet to fill 223 brass. Filling cases under a faucet never works for me, 1lb can of 748 was on my bench and the light bulb came on.
milo-2
Well-Known Member
Do you ever offer a solution to problems? Or just point out how people do things wrong?
