Weatherby Vanguard TR

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Sully2, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone using one of these? Do they REALLY shoot 1 MOA or less or is that just a sale gimmick?

    The "plain Jane version" has one heck of a price on it.....but if you cant hit a backstop at 100 yds...if it were free it would still be too $$

    What say you Vanguard owners?
     
  2. jfseaman

    jfseaman Well-Known Member

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    3 Vanguards
    1 Mark V

    Mine are customized to my preferences but include many of the TRR features.

    If I weren't an incorrigible builder I'd buy one.

    Biggest advantage larger barrel diameter.
     

  3. idaho elk hunter

    idaho elk hunter Well-Known Member

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    Please do not get me wrong here as I am a Weatherby only gunsmith. The Vanguard is a marketing firearm sold to boost profits. It is not USA made and it is not Weatherby design. It is Made by HOWA in JAPAN.
    Once that is said it is a formidable action and is inherently accurate. It is not as strong or as good of engineering as the Mark 5.
    For those that want to feel special owing a "weatherby" on the cheap I suppose it feels this void. ( it wasn't worth the capitalization)
     
  4. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    It cant be any more of a "joke" that SPS Remingtons. I bought 2 of them....the first and the last ( thats makes 2 doesnt it???)

    Where ( location) something is made doesnt mean diddle to me either...I look at what Im getting for the $$ I have to shell out for it. Win 101 shotguns were / are made in Japan...and they are good shotguns.

    I do thank you for your input
     
  5. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    If you know much about the history of the Howa Vanguard actions, Weatherby contracted Howa, way back when, to build an economic introduction level rifle/action for Weatherby and to use the Mark V as the model. The Howa action does in fact have many of the same features as the Mark V, the main differences being the length (Howas are a little shorter) and the bolt. Both are one piece bolts but the Mark V's have the 6 and 9 little lug configurations which IMO are marketing gimmicks that leave a lot to be desired from a functional engineering point of view. I much prefer the beefy 3 lug bolts.

    I don't buy Howas, Vanguards or any rifle to "feel special". I'm not that insecure. If I want a "special" action I would get a good custom action vs a factory mass produced product. That said the mass produced Vanguards serve me very well and I've done 2 builds on them so far with more planned.

    As for strength and engineerig.... the Mark V's are a good strong action but how much stronger than a Howa is pure speculation.... which I doubt you have real data or basis to claim, just like you have no data to claim that a "7 RM can out pound a 300 WM".... just BS is all.

    So, how exactly, are the Mark V's engineered any differently than the Howa's other than the itty bitty lugs?
     
  6. Bullet bumper

    Bullet bumper Well-Known Member

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    In Australia the Howa and Weatherby V are very popular as we find they shoot great. I have a 223 Howa and it's as accurate as my Sako's .
    Try one I think you will be surprised at how good it is.
    The original design came from an Australian company CMC who got Howa to build a rifle called the Australian CMC Mountaineer .
    From that original design Howa in Japan now knocks off the Howa and Weatherby v and a few others .
    The only thing I would like to see improved is Howa fit a Sako style extractor. .
     
  7. angus-5024

    angus-5024 Well-Known Member

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    MontanaRifleman,
    I believe that a few years back there was a heated debate on the strongest factory action on the market. After all the dust settled we had several very well known smiths give there opinion and crunch some numbers, and the Weatherby Mark V and the Sako (I think 85) came out as the strongest. I think that the main factor was the lug bearing surface and thickness as well as the barrel shank diameter... the only two safe actions to go for the .378 WBY case.
    If I remember correctly the thread was around the time that Kirby was in the R&D stages of the Raptor, so he was heavily involved in the conversation.

    Apart from those two actions I think that most others were a wash with there strengths and faults, but the HOWA/Vanguard, rem 700 and M70 were on top of the strength pile.
     
  8. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    I think in caliber Winchester 300 Mag a Vanguard would be a tough enough action..??
     
  9. howco

    howco Well-Known Member

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    + 1 Montana rifleman

    Vanguard rifles are great. I have two plain janes in 308 win. One shoots ragged one hole groups out to 300 yds with factory ammo from hornady. Mark v have the shorter degree bolt throw, but other than that very reliable when comparing to other makes and models. I was able to pick up a third vanguard at Sportsmans warehouse for $340.00 this week. I have never personally seen one not shoot. They are still the best bargain out there... if you can find one. If you talk to a legit gunsmith who doesn't drink the 700 kool aid by the drum, they will tell you vanguard/howa actions come very precise with not a lot of slop to be worked out. They only need a stock change out and become a rifle you will grab often..
     
  10. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Most definitely. The Vanguards are chambered in 300 WM, 300 WBY Mag, and 338 WM. However, IMO the actions are to short for handloading other than SAAMI spec COALs in those cartridges.

    There is a small company in Germany that also chambers Howa actions for 338 Lapua, which has a slightly larger bolt face than the 378 Wby variants, but once again a bit short for that cartridge and the action was not (edit) designed for the increased bolt thrust... but none the less a good strong action for standard magnum cartridges.
     
  11. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    No idea at this time just how far out I could seat slugs in a Vanguard...OR...just how large of a bullet I could use. I recently read a good article in American Rifleman that gave some eye opening info on the 300 at very long range...which told me that at "MY" long ranges they would be superb
     
  12. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I started my Weatherby collection over 30 years ago. I didn't have much money, but I wheeled and dealed until I took a very nice used Vanguard Deluxe home in 20-06. The rifle was a 1/2 moa gun from the go with 85 gr Nosslers. It took many whitetail for me. Later the load changed to the 110 gr Accubond and that is the load for it today which it shoots equally well. No fancy work has been done to it. Just a little bedding in the front lug area of the factory stock, and free float on the barrel. I have since owned probably 100 Wby rifles. This included a collection of 5 panel Lazermarks from .224 to 460, an array of Accumark's and Deluxe's. I had a beautiful .308 Vanguard Deluxe with dark wood to die for. I rebarreled it to 6mm-284 and it drove tacks. That barrel is gone now and the rifle is rebarreled and restocked into my 6mm BR. The action is very smooth and the rifle shoots awesome. Of all these Wby's that have come and gone, only 3 remain in the safe. The Vanguard in 25-06, the 6 br and a stainless 340 in an oiled Lazermark stock. The Howa action is a very good action and I have yet to see one not shoot well.

    Jeff
     
  13. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    "The Howa action is a very good action and I have yet to see one not shoot well."

    THATS what a person wants to hear....Thanks
     
  14. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    You can read the potential of the 300 WM by reading Broz' threads which are more credible to me than American Rifleman. With the right load(s) it is a fine 1K plus cartridge, although I am not a fan of the belted cartridges. You could load for single shot shooting in the longer cartridges but if I ever built anything again in the longer cartridges, I would use a custom action.

    The longest cartridge I would use in a Howa action would be the 300 Dakota and even then you have to seat the longer bullets a little way into the case to get a repeater. It is possible to mil and stretch the mag box a little.