Vortex pst FFP or SFP

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Clndesl, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. Clndesl

    Clndesl Well-Known Member

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    Ok so I'm going to be ordering a vortex pst 6x24 50mm in mil on mil and I am stuck on whether I should get FFP or SFP. I have never had a FFP so I guess I just wanna know if it's better and worth the extra $. Thanks
     
  2. thehulk

    thehulk Well-Known Member

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    I have the FFP, its awesome man. Thats what I would go with.
     

  3. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Do some searching on here using the box at the upper right hand corner of this page. Study the differences and see what others are usig that will be shooting to the diatances you feel you will. I can not see any advantages to the FFP for my style of LR shooting. So I use and prefer SFP. I see no reason to pay more for something I will not use and don't care for.

    Jeff
     
  4. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    I love a ffp and it is all I will buy. I use reticle a lot for shots, and like it if I dont have time or varmit hunting. Can use holds at any power and sometimes a lower power is better for mirage or conditions. I have been right next to guys that missed w/ sfp not paying attention to power setting in a hunting set up.
     
  5. highridge1

    highridge1 Well-Known Member

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    FFP is not for me, crosshairs are just to thick and not precise enough. SFP for sure for accurate long range shooting.
     
  6. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

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    Bet you never looked through a FFP PST. If you had I don't think you would come to your conclusion that the reticle is to thick & not precise enough.

    Here is a 200 yd. 5 shot 3/8" group I shot with my 6-24x50mm PST FFP MOA scope with the power set on 24x. If the reticle was to thick I would not be able to hold it on a 1/4" dot at 200 yds.

    joseph

    PS: Here is a 1,000 yd. target I shot with the same hunting rifle with the same PST FFP scope with the power set at 24x. The group sizes & scores are in the lower right corner. All 15 shots would have been in the boiler room of an antelope at 1,000 yds. :D gun) -------------
     

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  7. highridge1

    highridge1 Well-Known Member

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    Looked through one yesterday, Don't like it at all. Would have bought the scope if it wasn't for the FFP. Reticle changing size... No Thanks..
     
  8. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

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    Actually the reticule stays the same size in relationship with your target with a FFP. With a SFP the reticule stays the same size even when the target enlarges.

    Oh well to each his own. When I got mine I had never looked through a FFP before and it WAS different. Since I had spent the $895 I put it on my rifle and went to the range and it took me about 15 minutes or less to get used to it and now I can't imagine buying anything else especially for hunting. You even get used to it when at 6x and it is very thin even without the illuminated reticle which you can use if you think you need it.

    joseph

    PS: Vortex also offers a Custom turret which I got which is dead nuts accurate with the info I gave Vortex from my drop chart.

    Testing new Vortex custom turret. - Georgia Outdoor News Forum
     
  9. thehulk

    thehulk Well-Known Member

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    That's why I love mine, I feel it gives me e better opportunity when aiming, so I can solidly put my cross hairs where I want them without having to strain. Will never buy anything but FFP from here on out.
     
  10. Scot E

    Scot E Well-Known Member

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    How do you plan on using your scope? For instance, do you plan on or have a desire to learn to use the reticle for things like elevation hold over, windage holds, calling shots, or ranging? If your answer is no then you will be just fine with a SFP scope and will save some $$$. If the answer is yes then I would suggest you at least think about an FFP scope. If you answered yes, then do you shoot in conditions where mirage can be an issue? Do you shoot in low light conditions? If yes, then an FFP scope is even more valuable IMO. SFP advocates will argue that you can do the same things with an SFP scope and while this is true there are a number of issues that must be dealt with in order to accomplish the task, where with FFP you don't have to worry about them.

    FFP eliminates potential error when using a reticle. This is the main benefit to FFP. Because the reticle subtends the same through the entire power range you don't ever have to worry about miscalculations because you thought you were on the correct power setting when in fact you weren't. Big deal if you shoot in a hurry or under some pressure. That is most of us most of the time IMO. In addition, one must make sure that and SFP scope is calibrated correctly at the designated power setting in order for the reticle to subtend correctly. As an example, most SFP scopes are designed to subtend correctly at a specific power setting, let’s say 20x. So a shooter needs to be sure and measure the reticle at 20x to be sure that it really is 1 MIL per hash or 2 MOA per hash etc. If it isn’t then that error has to be dealt with for things to be accurate to your ballistic program or chart. Then you must make sure that you get to the exact same setting on the power mag ring to ensure the reticle subtends the same every time.

    FFP is also nice if you are shooting during periods with high mirage. Most SFP scopes are designed to be used on high power for the hash marks to subtend correctly. But high power brings out the most mirage issues and sometimes using the highest power just isn't a good option. Of course SFP users can just learn a second set of numbers to use at a lower power setting but that raises the potential for error and makes things more difficult.

    In the same line of thinking, using high power during low light conditions may make the sight picture too dim for a good shot. With FFP you can reduce the power and still have the reticle subtend correctly so there is no increased chance for error or trying to remember 2 sets of numbers.

    There are also some other minor nuances with FFP that may or may not be advantageous to the shooter. In general the reticle is darker and stays darker through the adjustment range and is easier to see throughout the power range. And this isn't just because the lines are thicker. It has to do with how the reticle is projected to the eye.

    For whatever reason there seems to be a lot of guys that have a very negative feeling toward FFP scopes and some have a tendency to give reasons that simply aren't factual. Many times when I inquire about their experience with FFP scopes I find out that there is little to no experience. So some things to keep in mind.

    * With any of todays mid to upper end FFP reticles, there is no issue with the reticle being too thick for precise shooting. The technology used to etch the reticle on the glass has gotten very good and manufacturers have found the proper balance between precision and visibility.

    * The reticle size does not grow when magnification is increased. It stays the same size throughout the adjustment range. So if the reticle gives you enough precision to make a shot at 3x it is going to give you the same precision at 20x. What SFP will do for you is actually increase the size of the target in relation to the reticle. Some guys find more confidence in this concept and therefore like the SFP better but it is important to understand that FFP won't worsen with magnification, it stays the same. If I were shooting groups in competition or shooting smaller targets like ground squirrels at LR then I would look at SFP because it does allow you to get a bigger picture of the target in relation to the reticle. But I had the SS 3-9x40 FFP on my 17HMR and wasn't having any issues hitting little Belding ground squirrels out to 300 yards.:D

    *Ranging is often incorrectly listed as the only benefit to FFP scopes when in fact it is the least important. Things like, holding for elevation, holding for wind drift, and calling corrections (how far off center your shot was) are far more widely used and are much more valuable. Just being able to call misses in MILS or in MOA while practicing is a huge asset. It helps you develop a mental picture of what is happening downrange and gives you a way to quickly call the error, adjust for it and get another shot off. This in comparison to having someone call the miss in inches, which will be a total guesstimate, then trying to work the numbers backwards to find out how many MOA you need to adjust for a 17 inch miss at 575 yards. Way too much time and math when instead you just could have read through the reticle that there was a 3 MOA miss to the right. Then you hold or dial the 3 MOA and you are ready to shoot again. Very quick, very easy!

    Hope This Helps,

    Scot E.
     
  11. joseph

    joseph Well-Known Member

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    WHUU........ boy Scotts that was long winded so I'll just give it a X2 and save me all that factual "WIND". :D

    joseph

    PS: Thanks Scott I couldn't have explained it any ware as good as you did. :)
     
  12. highridge1

    highridge1 Well-Known Member

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    I much prefer twisting turrets for long range accuracy with no long range hash marks.When I turned the power on the PST all the way up I was shocked how big the crosshairs look.For a tactical type situation or for using hold over marks I can see the point of the ffp. For twisting turrets for long range accurate shooting with a regular crosshair the FFP had 0 advantage for me.It does look like the FFP scopes are selling really well though. If the PST I looked at was SFP I would have bought it.
     
  13. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    I like my tmr reticule, it has a small space at center, a 1 1/2 sticky dot just fits site picture in middle @ 400, nice for aiming you can see target
     
  14. sendero72

    sendero72 Well-Known Member

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    The reticle is 1/8 moa thickness, so at 1000yds it will cover 1.25 inches of the target.