Ultimate Long Range Moderate recoil Deer Round

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by dimecovers3, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. dimecovers3

    dimecovers3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    I would like to have a lightweight rifle capable of taking out varmints and deet on Powerlines, fields, gaslines here in N.C. As far as caliber goes, those 270wsm or 7mm wsm sound good. A 280 AI is a possible. A 7mm/08 with the Hornady high power rounds. or some wicked 25 caliber would all work. Would a stock 25/06 do the job on yoyes and deer to 500 yards reliably? Can anybody suggest something "fun" I know I do not want to go above 140 gr 7 nn bullit. Any thoughts if you were in my shoes. I already have a .270 (A-Bolt)that shoots marble size groups, but I want a change. Does the.257 Weatherby shoot tight groups? Will want to do all this on a 700 Rem action
     
  2. Brig Jones

    Brig Jones Member

    Messages:
    11
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    In my opinion, it's all about personal choice. All calibres mentioned should work. I'm biased toward the 280AI. Big performance, not much powder, lots of bullet choices, moderate recoil. Work up to 60 grn AA3100, 59 grn imr 4350, 60 grns 1mr 4831 nosler ballistic tip or partions in 150 grn + plenty more; these print under a minute. My 25-06 has to huffand puff at 500yds. Good luck, Brig.
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Dimecovers3,

    Check this little 25 caliber out.

    [​IMG]

    The three in the middle are 257 Allen Magnums loaded with the 130 gr Wildcat Bullet to +3600 fps. The two little guys on each side are 25-06 rounds loaded with the 115 gr ballistic Silvertip.

    [​IMG]

    This is the APS Extreme Sporter. This rifle is chambered for the 257 AM and weights in at 9.75 lbs with this stock.

    I am building a light weight version of this same rifle with a heavy fluted 30" Lilja #6 contour barrel and a McMillan stock. This rifle should weigh in between 8 1/4 and 8 1/2 lbs.

    Groups with these rifles average in the .3" range at 100 yards and in the 1.5" range at 500 yards with taylored loads.

    This may be more rifle then your looking for but for the ultimate in flat shooting and accuracy in a relatively light rifle they are nearly impossible to beat.

    As far as a perfect yote load, if you don't care about pelt damage, the 100 gr Wildcat bullet will average 4100 fps in this rifle.

    So far I have only tested out to 350 yards but with a 100 yard impact of +2.3" the 4100 fps, 100 gr pills land +3" high at 350 yards. I suspect at 500 they may well be only a couple inches low!!!

    With a Holland QD brake fitted you will see the bullet land at any range with a solid shooting position. Almost more fun then should be legal.

    Imagine a 257 Wby, only with another 400 fps added to its top loads and true long range varmint accuracy.

    There is also a 6.5mm and 270 version.

    Again, probably a bit heavier and larger case then your looking for but for 500 yard shooting, there really is no hold adjustment needed, especially on deer size game.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

    Messages:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    6.5-06 and the 140gr SST/AMax will do whatever you want to 500yds and beyond. I just love mine.

    Jerry
     
  5. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    63
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Here's what fits the bill for me:

    264 Win Mag, 120gr XLC, Rl-22 (max charge for 3550 fps) - it's a great low recoiling, fast and accurate (for my gun) long range load.

    Six deer and one antelope... no recovered bullets yet.
     
  6. dimecovers3

    dimecovers3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    That 257 Allen looks like the Wrath of Things to Come---what's involved in making it? Can it be shot from a Rem 700 Long Action or do I need an F-14?
    Steve
     
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Dimecover3,

    Either will work but its much easier accurizing a Rem 700 then a Tomcat!

    Actually easy to make. I will be offering die sets and prenecked brass that is annealed and ready to load for fireforming loads.

    Load, shoot, trim and you have full blown 257 Allen Mag brass ready to roll. I also have the wildcat bullets in stock for all the bullet weights that will be used in the three Allen Magnum rounds to they can be shipped with the dies and rifle and load data in one package.

    I am not saying it will give you 2000 rounds of throat life but it will give in the range of 1000 to 1200 round barrel life and for a big game rifle that is seveal lifetimes for most hunters and long range shooters.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  8. Yorkplates

    Yorkplates Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    84
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    If you had not put those 25-06 cartridges in the picture, I would have said your 257 Allens were .30-378s. What kinda recoil would you get without the break?
     
  9. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    723
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    I would also consider the 6,5-284, bullets are great from bc, sec density and terminal performance point of view, and has the necessary power to reach those distances.
     
  10. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Auburn Tiger,

    I have been testing my 1-8" twist 257 AM with the 156 gr pills loaded to +3350 fps and recoil is about teh same as my 7mm Rem Mag loaded with the 140 gr pills at 3350 fps. Actually quite comforable. If your used to a 30-06 class recoil in an 8 to 9 lb rifle, the 257 AM will feel no different.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Don't know about the rest of ya, but I WANT ONE! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif!
     
  12. Zane in Oregon

    Zane in Oregon Member

    Messages:
    17
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Hi all, I'm new to this board, glad to find yet another place to share ideas, this page is super. I shoot a 6.5x280 Ackely with 120 nosler ball tips at 3200 with R19. This is the second barrel (this one is Pacnor #5) in this caliber and both of them were good. This one seems to shoot a bit better than the first, but not as fast. First barrel shot 3400 with RL22. Great deer rifle for long range, especially the smaller blacktails out here.
     
  13. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    723
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Fiftydriver, I guess these are the ones you talk about using a 3 groove barrel in. Those cartridges are really impressive. Congratulations for the development. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
     
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    alg,

    Yes, I use Lilja 3 grooves exclusively in these and am in the process of getting Lilja tooled up to build a 1-7.5" twist 257 barrel for teh 156 gr ULD Rebated Boattails from Wildcat Bullets. These bullets have a b.c. of +.800 from initial testing at 500 yards and in a 30" 1-8" twist barrel, the 257 Allen Mag is getting 3250 to 3300 fps easily with AA8700 powder.

    Here are the ballistic numbers comparing the 257 Allen Mag loaded with the 156 gr ULD to my 338 Kahn using the 300 gr ULD at 3050 fps out to 2000 yards. This will give you an idea what this little pill will do.

    257 Allen Mag
    Yards.......Drop.......Velocity.......Energy
    100.........0.0.........3171...........3482
    500........-31.0........2672...........2473
    750........-88.5........2388...........1975
    1000.......-184.3.......2123...........1561
    1250.......-328.6.......1875...........1218
    1500.......-535.1.......1647...........940
    1750.......-822.3.......1442...........720
    2000.......-1214.5......1268...........557


    338 Kahn

    100.......0.0...........2926.............5703
    500......-37.7..........2448.............3992
    750......-106.7.........2176.............3155
    1000.....-221.8.........1921.............2459
    1250.....-396.2.........1686.............1894
    1500.....-647.5.........1475.............1448
    1750.....-999.3.........1293.............1113
    2000.....-1482.0........1147.............877

    While big 338 certainly has an energy advantage, at extreme range it is not by as much as one would expect and the 257 Allen Mag has +38" less drop then the Kahn at 1000 yards and 268" less drop at 2000 yards. Thats over 22 feet less drop. Wind drift is similiar with the slight edge going to the Allen Mag.

    ITs an impressive "little" round.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)