Easy there fellers! We are all entitled to an opinion and have varying personal experiences and preferences; let's try to provide information to help the OP make a sound decision.
Cheers!
Ed
Cheers!
Ed
Last edited:
Ruger accuracy
- Thread starter chad44
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MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Probably the biggest problem with the front action screw is most M77 owners don't know how to torque them down properly which is not the actions "fault" necessarily but then again it is not as straight forward as torquing down other actions.
If you check out post #9 in this thread, you'll see the smith ground off the lug and drilled and tapped a new hole for the front screw and replaced the recoil lug with a beefier lug between the barrel and receiver much like the Rem design.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f37/ruger-m77-action-build-33427/index2.html
An integral lug is much more desirable but in the case of the M77 the lug is not very substantial and it is milled out in the center for the action screw, further diminishing lug contact with the bed. Proper contact between recoil lug and stock bed is critical for reliable and repeatable precision shooting as I'm sure you know based on your post and the steps you took in epoxying in the steel piece into your bed. The angled configuration also makes it more challenging to do a proper bedding job. One also needs to take a little extra care that the screw is not in contact with the stock or pillar when torqued down which is another source of problems.
If the angled front action screw was not a negative issue, why would the smith grind off the lug, drill and tap a new hole and replace the lug with a Rem style one that is not integral? My smith, who I previously mentioned as liking M77's, also drills and taps for a new action screw that is not angled. This is a fairly common practice.
Another thing I'm not thrilled about is the 2 piece bottom metal/trigger guard along with middle screw. The one piece bottom metal trigger guard design with 2 screws is much better leading to less complication. The middle screw is also a source of issues if not torqued correctly. A lot of guys learn this the hard way with many rounds of wasted ammo down range. I broke my original trigger guard because I torqued it too hard and the replacement cost me $80.
I'm not trying to slam M77's. I am just telling it how I objectively see it and what I've learned after a lot of research.
The OP asked this....
Like I said before, you can make anything shoot well if you put enough time and $$$ into it. IMO, the OP would do better to trade or sell his Ruger for something like a Howa/Vanguard or M70 which are very straight forward actions with desirable features that are important in a good action to build a precision rifle with. They need little to no messing around with other than a straight forward.
I have just had 2 rifles done on the Howa style actions and I am very pleased with them. The basic blueprint cost $325 ea. Nothing else was needed other than there was a $30 charge to remove the barrel because Howa puts their barrels in quite tight.. No special jigs, no tapping the receiver for rails, no changing the recoil lug and screw confguration. I even kept the original trigger on one because I was to tune it to a very crisp 1.5 lbs. The other I bought used with a Timney on it and i can't tell the difference. I did have large tactical knobs welded to the bolt handle which was not necessary but something I opted for.
If I do give my M77 a facelift, it won't be a practical decision, it will be a sentimental decision.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
If he can get a 700 action or rifle pretty cheap, he should be able to have it trued and a good barrel put on with all smith work for around $600-700. That's what my smith charges for that job including the Douglas Premium Air-Gauged barrel blank. If you already have the rifle and an amuminum bed blocked stock and scope, you can have a very accurate custom rifle for well under $1K.
Any action can be used to make an accurate rifle. They all have their pros and cons with their designs.
Any action can be used to make an accurate rifle. They all have their pros and cons with their designs.
Yes it is true that Rugers are not the perfect action. They have their kinks. Several times I was cusing, wishing I had a 700. I don't have alot of money so I had a wore out 25-06 that was a good shooter years ago. It was either sell it for a couple of hundred dollars and put that into something else or just get a new barrel and have my buddy install and chamber it in my Ruger action. I did want a 280 Ackley. I knew the drawbacks of the Rugers but it was my cheapest way to go. It shot great before. I knew I could get it to shoot just as good hopefully better with a custom barrel.. I had thought about doing away with the stock angle lug and bolt but then after thinking about the milling and how I was going to have to modfy floor plate to work after that and said that is too much trouble. I just didn't think it was worth it. I knew I could bed it and get it to work. I would like to see how they modified the floor plate, Just make another hinge? That is how I was going to do it.
By the way, Years ago when I bedded the 220 Swift I did learn how to break the trigger guard LOL
It has had a steel one on it ever sence . Like someone said." Only accurate guns are interesting". I myself don't care what brand it is. I will be working on my 700 SPS Varmint in 22-250 and see if it will out shoot my Old 220 Swift Ruger. It has its work cut out for it. Only time will tell.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Hey TNWhip...
While I am a HUGE 700 fan, and life-long 700 advocate, them words will start a war in a thread talking about which action is better than the other. Trust me, I know from experience. I told a guy to go buy a 700 and scrap his Savage, and the SHTF...
While I am a HUGE 700 fan, and life-long 700 advocate, them words will start a war in a thread talking about which action is better than the other. Trust me, I know from experience. I told a guy to go buy a 700 and scrap his Savage, and the SHTF...
clemens
Well-Known Member
Amazing how one brand over another creates such chaos I think it is a personal choice. Nothing wring with savage, Rem, etc.. reminds me of the debates over who makes better car or pick up truck. I loved the Ruger's I had years ago. I enjoy my Mod70 even though it has trigger issues. And my savage .22-250 and my sav-10 in .308. Even though it to could be dine different. Enjoy what you have. Enjoy life
clemens
Well-Known Member
Oops spelled couple words wrong. Sorry gentlemen.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Agreed. When someone asks advice on what action for people to recommend, of course I'm gonna say 700 first. I've had many, and never had any issues with ANY of them. Some folks claim to have alot of issues, but to me, any action and any barrel can be made to shoot. Your smith's abilities has about 90% to do with a rifle's accuracy, compared to the brand name on the components being put together. Just a little something my smith told me once when we were discussing brands of barrel blanks and which one he thought was better than the other. I thought about it, and there's no denying that that's a true statement. He wasn't bragging, he was just making a general statement. However, my smith is REALLY good, so I have zero complaints, and wouldn't care if he was bragging, he has every right to.
I never did say which action was better. I was just saying that me having an ole 1976 220 Swift Ruger that will still shoot Groups like this.Hey TNWhip...
While I am a HUGE 700 fan, and life-long 700 advocate, them words will start a war in a thread talking about which action is better than the other. Trust me, I know from experience. I told a guy to go buy a 700 and scrap his Savage, and the SHTF...
. My new Rem. 700 sps varmint 22-250 has it's work cut out for it. Would you not agree?Some people say a Ruger is not accurate but I have two that are. Heck I hope the Rem. 22-250 will out shoot the Ruger.gun)
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Every gun I own is accurate, Ruger, Remington, Marlin, etc...Except one, and I'm pretty sure it's just been shot hot so much that it will no longer group (picked it up used)...And it's a Remington 700 .338 WinMag. Never been a fan of the huge bores, as we have no need for them down here, except for hog hunting.
My 2 old Rugers are surgical accurate, so are my Remington 700's. I was just stating that for some reason whenever you mention that you wished you had a 700, or something to do with your good experiences with a 700, someone always has to input that they hate them for blah blah blah reasons...I'm not saying anything is better than anything else, and I know you weren't either. I was just giving you a heads-up for the 700 haters out there.
My 2 old Rugers are surgical accurate, so are my Remington 700's. I was just stating that for some reason whenever you mention that you wished you had a 700, or something to do with your good experiences with a 700, someone always has to input that they hate them for blah blah blah reasons...I'm not saying anything is better than anything else, and I know you weren't either. I was just giving you a heads-up for the 700 haters out there.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Yes it is true that Rugers are not the perfect action. They have their kinks. Several times I was cusing, wishing I had a 700. I don't have alot of money so I had a wore out 25-06 that was a good shooter years ago. It was either sell it for a couple of hundred dollars and put that into something else or just get a new barrel and have my buddy install and chamber it in my Ruger action. I did want a 280 Ackley. I knew the drawbacks of the Rugers but it was my cheapest way to go. It shot great before. I knew I could get it to shoot just as good hopefully better with a custom barrel.. I had thought about doing away with the stock angle lug and bolt but then after thinking about the milling and how I was going to have to modfy floor plate to work after that and said that is too much trouble. I just didn't think it was worth it. I knew I could bed it and get it to work. I would like to see how they modified the floor plate, Just make another hinge? That is how I was going to do it.
By the way, Years ago when I bedded the 220 Swift I did learn how to break the trigger guard LOL
Like someone said." Only accurate guns are interesting". I myself don't care what brand it is. I will be working on my 700 SPS Varmint in 22-250 and see if it will out shoot my Old 220 Swift Ruger. It has its work cut out for it. Only time will tell.
Just got back from the range from break-in work on my 3 new rifles built on 2 Howa's (S&W and Vanguard) and a Rem 700. No, I'm not rich, I've been buying parts and paying toward these projects for about 3 years now.
You could have sold your old Ruger for a couple hundred and bought an old Vanguard foe a couple hundred and you would have had a better action to work on as far as blueprinting and fitting with custom stock and barrel. In the end your costs would have been less (if you did the whole blueprint thing) by doing the swap. By the time you add up the labor and parts, the Ruger is going to cost a good bit more than the Howa or M70.
It's possible to get a good shooter without a blueprinted action by just sticking on a good barrel. Both my Snederos were great shooters on a stock 700 action. I've got a Vanguard 223 thats' a grea shooter out of the box in the factory plastic stock. But truing up the action and bedding them properly in a good stock just increases the odd of getting a really good reliable precision rifle. And it just feels good
Good luck with the 22-250
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Mark, I don't know what it is about them, but my Sendero & 5R rifles are just tack-drivers from the factory... I guess Remington spends a little more time on them and massaages and picks their truest and straightest parts for them, since they are in their top-tier of their line-up. That's my theory on them...
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Could very well be true. I think the heavy barrel contour and the full aluminum bedded HS Precision stock has a lot to do with it.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
That's also a very good point.
