Redding neck sizing problem?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by birddog67, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. birddog67

    birddog67 Well-Known Member

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    I am loading for my Remington 308 700

    I full lenght sized them and neck sized them and did not notice this the first time . All trimmed to 2.005
    Shot them and they shot just over .58 at 100 yards
    So I go to load more tumble them then just go to neck size them .
    Loaded round measures .331 using a redding bushing .327

    Am I just neck sizing to much to cause this bulge ? Right above the shoulder

    I believe I have the neck die set up correctly , I neck size for my 300 ultra and my 7mm-08 with redding dies also with no problems ?

    Is it me or do I have a die problem or is.004 to much to neck size this brass ?

    Help here is a pic of the brass .
     

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  2. varmintH8R

    varmintH8R Well-Known Member

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    Few questions:

    What type of neck die (competition, type S, etc)? Does it have an expander?

    What is the neck diameter at the top vs at the bulge?

    Do you know when the bulge is forming (could it be during bullet seating)?


    I have never seen anything like that with any of my Redding neck dies, and I have some FL dies that oversize the neck over 4 thou (before expander) that are also OK. I'm interested to see what responses you get for when I undoubtedly have this issue some day . . .
     

  3. birddog67

    birddog67 Well-Known Member

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    No expander ball

    Type s dies

    It's not their before neck sizing

    The bullet seats fine there is not a lot of resistance when seating after they are neck sized .

    Neck measures .327 after sizing .

    It's the bulge bellow that's bothering me can't figure it out .
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    It isn't the unsized portion of the neck?
     
  5. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Looks to me like the case neck in the picture isn't sized down to the same diameter all the way to the shoulder. I'd adjust the full length sizing die so the fired case shoulder's set back about .002". That'll well center the sized case neck on the shoulder for best accuracy as well as allow easy bolt closing and repeatable positioning for each shot.

    I don't think you need to neck size your cases; just full length size them.

    And if your loaded round's neck diameter is .331", I wouldn't use a bushing in your full length sizing die smaller than .329"; .328" at most.
     
  6. Joe King

    Joe King Well-Known Member

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    Looks to me like you could size down farther on your neck, also just a recommendation, but I would try bushing that size down the neck less. I used to size my neck 0.004" under the loaded dimension too, when I tried bushings that sized less my accuracy increased. Now I'm at 0.001" under loaded round dia on the neck.
     
  7. varmintH8R

    varmintH8R Well-Known Member

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    One other thought:

    I have a 300WSM with the opposite of a tight neck (loose neck?). It is a weirdly accurate factory rifle, and I use Type-S bushing dies to size. Because the fired neck diameter is so large, I have found for run-out reasons that I have to neck size in two stages (increments of about 3 thou each).

    It is possible you have a similar situation, and you are not sizing all of the way down the neck (as others have pointed out). Is your fired neck diameter significantly larger than the loaded neck diameter, or does it get wider as you get closer to the shoulder? Very intetested to hear if/when you identify the cause.

    Good luck
     
  8. RTK

    RTK Well-Known Member

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    The picture is a little blurry to see, but I can tell you that with the redding bushing style neck sizing and FL sizing die you will NEVER size the whole neck, there will always be some not sized. It is the way the die is manufactured and there is no way around it.
     
  9. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    I think hundreds (thousands?) of reloaders using them as well as Redding will disagree with that.

    Why else would either die's information on Redding's web site:

    Type S Bushing Dies | Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

    have the following statement:

    Note: For the ultimate shoulder bump control, use these dies with our new Competition Shellholders.

    Do you think those bushings have two different diameters; a larger diameter next to their shoulder than the rest of the bushing that sizes the fired case neck down?
     
  10. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    RTK is right
    The competition shell holders are related only to shoulder bumping, and not neck sizing provided by bushing. They only adjust to about 10thou(full range) if I remember right. I use some of a set with my Redding body dies. And I have a couple holders milled for one reason or another. Nothing to do with neck sizing length(a separate adjustment with limits in itself).
    Redding bushings are interchangable with Wilson, which also does not size the entire neck.

    There would be nothing good in FL neck sizing with a bushing anyway.
     
  11. RTK

    RTK Well-Known Member

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    Bart, I called redding and asked if there were some way I could make a neck sizing die or FL sizing die size the complete neck. They said it was impossible due to the design, I then asked if I could machine (I have a buddy with a machine shop) the inside of the die at the top so the bushing would drop further down and size more of the neck, they said no, or at least would not attempt it for me.
    I still think I can accomplish this on the neck sizing die because the shoulder will not be bumped back anyway and that is what supports the bushing........
     
  12. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    RK, 'tis funny you should mention this. I just talked to Redding myself and they said two things about this issue.

    * The bushings have the same diameter at both ends.

    * Remove the decapping rod and the die can be set for the bushing to size the fired case neck all the way to the shoulder. Otherwise, with the decapper hardware in the die, the bushing stops a few hundredths of an inch short of sizing the complete neck and will not go further.

    I thought this was reality as I'd talked with other folks using Redding full bushing dies sizing fired case necks all the way to the shoulder. They decap fired cases then clean them before sizing them.

    There are top level competitors in several disciplines who just lap the neck out of a standard full length sizing die so it'll size case necks all the way to the shoulder. Sometimes the die's body will be honed/lapped out so fired case bodies do not size down more than .001"; the cases has minimal sizing and work hardening so they last for more reloads.
     
  13. RTK

    RTK Well-Known Member

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    You must have talked to a different person than I did. Not to be a prick but I am calling BS. I own a 300wm FL bushing die.

    With the die I have removing the decap hardware makes no difference. The bushing bottoms out just above the shoulder on a ledge and does not touch any part of the decapping assembly.
    I even lowered the die enough to slightly crush a case and it still didn't size the whole neck.......Either I got a bad die and /or the guy at redding has his head up his a$$....but in my case there is NO way to size the whole neck.
    Buy or barrow a die, take it appart and you will see
     
  14. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    RTK, there may be a good reason why that was said about your 300wm FL bushing die.

    I talked with the Redding man about .308 Win. full bushing dies as they're what I've talked about with others using them. They may well be different thatn a .300 Win Mag one.

    Want me to get in touch with Redding and hash this out with them?

    Or would you feel better if you did it yourself?