Rapid Fire Magnum bolt rifles

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by tikka, May 23, 2006.

  1. tikka

    tikka Member

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    Do any of you guys rapid fire your magnum bolt guns? I know heating up the barrel is not good for the life of the barrel but cant be helped some times in a multiple target situation(5-20 in 60seconds) in my 308 its not so bad but my 30cal magnum the barrels too hot to touch 8-10 shots and more.
     
  2. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    For years I thought rapid fire was harder on barrels (wore 'em out faster) than slow fire. After a conversation with Boots Obermeyer at the Nationals years ago I kind of changed my mind. A few years ago I found this link where Boots Obermeyer's explaining barrel wear vs. heat vs. rapid/slow fire:

    http://www.snipersparadise.com/tsmag/june2001.htm

    As long as peak pressures don't open primer pockets so they won't hold primers for at least 20 reloads, I don't think rapid fire (less than 15 seconds between shots) will wear out barrels faster than slow fire.
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Tikka,

    I will have to disagree with Bart B on this one. I have a bit of experience with high case capacity, medium bore wildcats with my Allen Magnums and can tell you for a fact that if you get a barrel hot, that would be say 5 shots in a row though my 7mm AM for example.

    If you kept shooting you would produce several throat erosion and heat cracking in as little as 50 rounds fired through a hot barrel.

    Now in a 308 or 6.5-284 or something on the lines of that Bart B deals with this would cause damage but not to the dramatic extent as what I have seen in my Allen Magnums or other high intensity wildcat or conventional magnum rifles.

    Simply put, bore steel erodes much quicker once the barrel steel temp reaches a certain point if you continue to fire the rifle.

    I am not calling anyone a liar here but from what I have witness and seen second hand, what Bart B is saying is about as far from the trueth as you can get.

    Sorry bart, just have to disagree on this one. There is a reason that the military used high expansion ratio rounds in their selective fire weapons. Barrel life is pretty much the reason. Also a reason why bores are chrome plated as well.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    You are 100% correct on this one! I have seen what rapid fire and the heat do with respect to erosion. The uninformed ones as shown above are one reason I do not let people borrow my rifles.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Once again Bart comes up with something that goes against what everyone knows. No surprise. Most of us know that the opposite of what Bart posts is the truth.
     
  6. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Most of us know that the opposite of what Bart posts is the truth.

    [/ QUOTE ]OK, Harv, this post is for you: you are a very intelligent and knowledgeable person on rifles.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am not the most intelligent and knowledgeable person on this site. I am here mostly to learn. You think you know a lot about guns and shooting but some of the crap you post is way off. Than someone has to correct what you say and you get all pissy. We have to correct your posts or some new hunter/shooter might take your info and screw up. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that rapid fire/heating a barrel will shorten its life. You keep posting, we'll laugh and correct you.
     
  8. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Hey ---- I will say it--the guy is as full of crap (some of his posts are scary) as a Christmas goose! Just because someone has a computer an expert does not one make! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  9. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Just because someone has a computer an expert does not one make!

    [/ QUOTE ]Are you another distant star? I think so. Now there's three of you on this forum. Is it OK for me to tell the world you're full of crap? There's sure a lot of it coming out of your keyboard. Maybe it's just your computer that's full of crap. Shame on you for giving it a transfusion.
     
  10. DougH9

    DougH9 Well-Known Member

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    I will try to make a case to support Bart:

    It is a matter of degree (pun intended?). I am sure that at a certain critical temprature damage is done, but below that I doubt it matters much. (either it is doing damage, or not). The human hand is not a good indicator of that critical temprature. And exaust manifold seems very hot to our hand...but below the failure temp for that part. I am sure that a barrel can hold up fine with temps that hurt our hands. There is a BIG differance between a machine gun and a Highpower shooter (I don't think Bart had machine guns in mind). Highpower shooters get barrels HOT (both ATC and LR), and they hold up just about as long as can be expected.

    I guess what I am saying is that there is a difference between running them hard, and abuse.
     
  11. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    Hey Doug ,

    Just wanted to say howdy , so this thread is a good one to sidetrack , you think ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Also , like your style , /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    Jim B.
     
  12. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Well you do try but the facts are what they are---the metals used in military applications are very different esp for machine guns--ever hear of Stellite? I have more than a few knives made of this stuff and it is just about the most abrasion resistant stuff there is. I am sure you have conclusive empirical data evidenced by your exhaustive use of a borescope to validate your contrarian theory of heat and pressure does not accelerate erosion appreciably . I await the presentation of your factual data in this matter. Please Professor do carry on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif









    Otherwise, put down the crack pipe and step away from the keyboard. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    DougH9,

    There is also a major difference between what a high power shooters rifle is chambered in and most of the rounds used by hunters on this chat room.

    For instance, compare a 260 Rem or 7mm-08. 140 gr bullet, 45 gr of powder, 2800 fps or so.

    7mm AM, 200 gr bullet, 105 gr powder, 3200 fps.

    Yes, in the case of a small capacity high power rifle you can pull off more rounds then you can with most of the chamberings in discussion on LRH but still damage is done. If you can not hold the exterior of a rifle barrel bare handed the internal bore temps are MUCH higher and if you keep shooting you do damage with every shot once you hit a certain point.

    The example of an exhaust manifold is a poor one. An exhaust manifold simply has to retain its basic, generaly dimensional form. There are no fine precise dimensions that need to stay consistant for top performance like there is in a rifle barrel.

    I would agree there is a difference between a high power chambering and most of the rounds we use here on LRH but this is LRH, not highpower.com.

    Some newbie reading Bart B post may well destroy a rifle in one outing which no one wants. Comparing high power rifles to high intensity rifles is a very poor idea.

    The more I think about it, I should be agreeing with Bart B. As a custom rifle builder it would make sense for me to promote rapid firing of magnum rifles. Would keep me backed up with business for years /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  14. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Kirby, I know where you're coming from and there's some truth behind your comments. Three questions, please, so I'll better understand your claim.

    How many reloads per case do you get with those high-intensity rounds before they no longer hold primers?

    And how many seconds between well-aimed shots (or shots per minute) is the bolt gun rate of fire you're talking about? If the rapid fire shots aren't fired inside a 1 MOA circle on the target, I think it's a waste of time.

    How many rounds do 7mm AM barrels last?

    I noted your 7mm AM burns 105 grains of powder. With the bore capacity at 41 grains, that's over two and a half times bore capacity. No wonder it's a rapid fire barrel burner.