Primer Ignition Starts Bullets Moving?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Bart B, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    From another thread:
    I've not heard of this until now. But in my experiences with .308 Win. amm0 with primers igniting and no powder in the case, the bullets didn't move at all. Here's the details and facts:

    Issued 7.62 NATO ammo, M118 LC66 Match case and primer, 172-gr. FMJBT bullet and IMR4895 powder removed, reloaded with 44 grains of IMR4320 under a Sierra 190 HPMK. The black sealer was not cleaned out; it held the bullets in place with about a 5 to 7 pound release force as measured. (Bullet release force specs for M118 ammo's greater than 40 pounds and is usually about 50.) Rifle was a converted M1 with SA-1965 arsenal 1:12 twist 7.62 NATO barrel.

    Had to load 44 rounds to get 22 to fire. All those that were "clickers" and didn't fire had no powder. Overall cartridge length of the clickers was the same as loaded unfired rounds. Pulled bullets from the clickers showed black primer residue on the bullet base as well as the inside of the case. No bullet from the clickers seemed to move forward in the case neck at all.

    Others have fired issued ammo handloaded by US military team support folks that also had no powder. Nary a bullet left the case. I've had Eley Tenex rim fire ammo without powder shoot the bullet about 20 inches down the barrel. And 9mm Luger rounds with no powder push the bullet about 1/4 inch into the rifling. Others have reported similar incidents with rimfire and handgun ammo; .38 Special wadcutter target loads without powder locking up the cylinder of a S&W K38 Masterpiece with the bullet halfway into the barrel's forcing cone.

    I'll let others chat about the small rifle primer stuff. I used them in Rem. .308 Win. cases and they worked well with 155 and 180-gr. bullets. Others have used the same case with Rem. 7.5 primers with 48 grains of IMR4350 powder under a Sierra 200 gr. HPMK and set records at 600 yards. Check the pictures in the following link's documents and compare large rifle primer flash to small rifle primer flash to see the differences.

    http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html

    http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-small-rifle-primer-study.html

    An interesting paper on primers' pressure and other stuff is in:

    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1102/1102.1644.pdf
     

  2. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    My uncle reloaded some rounds for his 22-250, he didnt charge one by accident. The bullet went about 10" down the bore, 60 grain hornady V-max. CCI primer IIRC but dont know which one/style.
     

  3. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    I think a .22-.250 case with a large rifle primer will have a lot more pressure inside than a .308 Win. case and with the lighter bullets, it seems possible to me one would go down the bore a ways.
     
  4. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I had a .300 WM handload with a 230 VLD that had a struck primer and fully seated bullet, that I picked up at the range. Puled the bullet and not 1 grain of powder in it.

    However, some smaller lighter bullets might get pushed into the bore from primer strike, but the bigger heavier bullets aren't going to be as susceptible to movement.
     
  5. old_heli_logger

    old_heli_logger Well-Known Member

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    It probably depends on your neck tension and whether or not your bullet is crimped.
     
  6. Kiwi Greg

    Kiwi Greg Well-Known Member

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    What if you loaded a cartridge with an inert filler instead of powder ?

    That would take up the air space in the case & possibly move the bullet with primer ignition only ?
     
  7. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Might work if it didn't burn. Then probably have the same effect as using a smaller case such as the .22-.250 incident mentioned earlier.

    Handgun cartridges have very little space and they're notorious for primed powderless cases pushing bullets into the barrel.
     
  8. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

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    Rimfire rounds are noted for that. We call them 'squib' loads around here. The cheap stuff seems to be the most suspect. I've had more than one powderless rimfire that I've had to back the bullet up the rifling with a cleaning rod. You can tell by the sound that the obvious has occured. They go psssst instead of bang.

    I knew one guy that parked 3 pills in the bore of his target 22.