OCW load analysis help please

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by 300remum, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. 300remum

    300remum Member

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    Hi!
    i bought a second hand savage 12 FLVSS in 223 rem.
    i received my reloading stuff this week and prepared 21 cartridge from 23.5 to 25.3 gr. in .3 increment. they were shot in a round robin fashion as asked by the method. the result are oustanding for me. i never had such good result, especially on the first try. but it's my first varmint rifle also. so since i got a 21 shot 1.06" group. ( 19 shots in 0.680'' if i take the two outsidemost out of the group) if i lay the 7 targets on top of each other, i don't really know what to use for ocw.
    since h335 is apparently temp sensitive i tought 24.1 gr. would be good.
    the temp today was about in the middle range of what i would encounter in the field (60-80 deg for rockchuck in summer- 10-20 deg for coyote in winter
    25 gr also seem good ,and would give more velocity. but a more consistent load is more important to me.
    so i would like your inputs on this from you pros out here


    temp: 45 deg. no wind
    bullet: 55 ballistic tip
    powder: H335
    col. 2.300
    brass: new win.
    primer: fed 205

    note: 25.3 gr. has 2 shots in the left side hole

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  2. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    I would say 25 and 25.3 are your best, they have the least amount of verticle, and their POI are very similar.
     

  3. Joe King

    Joe King Well-Known Member

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    I would go with 25gr, next step would be about 5 different primers, then I would do the distances off my lands. I predict a tac driver when your done.:)
     
  4. 300remum

    300remum Member

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    thank you guys.
    i will load 25 gr. and try different COL.
    since 2.300" is my max mag lenght, i will try 5 shot groups of
    2.300-2.990"-2.980"-2.970"-2.960" and 2.950"
    sounds good?
     
  5. melloyello

    melloyello Member

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    I think instead of just going with 25gr, I would load up to 25.6gr(if pressure allows) and see if my grouping and velocity was pretty much the same. If so, I would go with 25.3gr and try seating depth changes with that. This would provide a load that is not too sensitive to changes such as temperature or if your scale happens to be a little off one day to the next. This would give you .3gr either way to deal with. This way anything from 25-25.6gr would prove to shoot well over all seasons and conditions.
     
  6. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure once you go to changing primers or seating everything is gonna change.
    Bigtime
     
  7. 300remum

    300remum Member

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    thank's everyone for the help
    last week i tested this load a bit further.
    here is the three 5 shot groups i got using 25 gr and a coal of 2.300 as in the ocw test.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    the first pic that have 2 holes on the left and 3 on the right was the last group i shot. a young gentlemen shooting next to me noticed that i was not consistent in my grip. and told me that some shot i was wrapping my thumb around the grip, other times i was putting my thumb on the back of the grip.
    so for the last 5 shot, i tried 3 shot one way and 2 the other. i guess he was right.
    it's nice to have someone watching. it helps pick up things i was completely unaware i was doing.
    it's pretty new that i go to a range. i was shooting alone on my uncle's land before.
    but i really like meeting experienced shooters

    i tried also at 2.290'' and groups enlarged in the .75" range
    at 2.280 it went in the .80-.90''

    i also tried just a 5 shot group at 2.260 that went 1.1".

    so i guess until i can put my hand on other brand of primers i will shoot some more and try to improve the driver it may help more than messing with the load:D
    but i will sure try melloyello's advice and try 25.6 to see if 25.3 might be better.
     
  8. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    See this is where tail chasing comes about in common load development.
    You find that your load performance seems to collapse at various changes to seating -because you've already OCW/incremental developed at 2.300".
    If you had developed at 2.290", you would now find performance degraded when adjusting seating to 2.300..
    And when you change the primer, everything will change at once.
    So until these changes stop, the various notions about specific charge are really invalid.
     
  9. 300remum

    300remum Member

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    you mean that i'm right and that i should leave it there and practice?
    english is not my first language so, not sure what you meant.
    so far i had always improved my loads by playing with aol after
    finding a charge. a couple of time i went from 1.5" group to .6-.7"
    if i then played with powder charge it didn't change much.
    so i tought that this time i actually stumble on the good aol on the first try
    out of luck
     
  10. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    OK that explains a little of the writing, Where are you from? Guys for his sake lets not use acronyms anymore or at least explain them for him, and try to avoid using slang, or references. I speak a second language and I know how hard this can be. Your typing "aol" we use "COAL" case over all length, most of us use a culminator to measure this from the bullets olgive as it gives a more consistent length. I have to say you load work up is very organized which is great. I think the over all them of what the guys here are trying to tell you is only change one thing at a time.

    Shooting technique is very important to consistency. Here are a few key things to remember. I shoot off the ground from the prone supported position, you will need a solid front rest (sand bags or bipod) and a solid rear rest. They sell stuff for both but you can make them just the same with socks, sand etc. Body position is key and I am going to be talking only about the prone position. Your body and the rifle must make a strait line from the muzzle to you heal, we call this "getting strait behind the rifle" it lets the recoil forces travel in a strait line. Next when aiming the rifle at the target you should adjust it (on you rest) so that your not holding it there, you body should hold it there. If your twisting it of putting pressure on it from your hands then your effecting it. Next is trigger pull and hand position, I am right handed so my left hand is tucked under the but of the rifle, my rifle hand it the only one that moves the left never leaves the rifle until I am done shooting. The right hand loads the rifle, operates the bolt, and makes adjustments to the scope. Hand position on the rifle is thumb strait along the side of he stock, trigger finger is placed so that the middle of the tip of the index finger is on the trigger, you must not allot any other part of the index finger to touch the stock. This insures that the trigger will be pressed strait back to the rear with out imparting any lateral force into the rifle.

    I have a saying I go over in my head every time I pull the trigger "BRASS" Breath, Relax, Aim, Slack, Squeeze. Also remember to time your shots with your breath, breath in then out 3 to 4 times. Let all the air out of your lungs then brake the shot, if you find your holding you breath for more than 6 or 7 seconds STOP and start over. At the 6 or 7 second point your body starts to feel the effect of oxygen deprivation and will start to shake.

    Jon
     
  11. 300remum

    300remum Member

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    thank you very much Jon!
    i'm from Sherbrooke, Quebec.
    thank's for the tips on shooting techniques. for load development i shoot from the bench with sand bags in the front and the back. i will try to find a rabbit ear bag for the back if you think it might help.
    i'm left hand shooter.
    when i'm satisfied with the load. ( which is normally when it shoots under moa all the time) i start practicing at distance up to 600 yard from prone/bipod. then i use only the bipod as it is all i carry in the field while hunting. so far i've limited myself to 450 yard while hunting. my longest shot is 409y on a caribou.
    i will extend my range only when my practice shows i'm ready.
    it's my first small caliber, varmint type rifle. so i'm thrilled to get those results so early on. i've never had a rifle shoot around .5" average before.
    but i know there's always room for improvement, and the result some of you guys get here is impressive.
    but i also understand that i wil eventuallyl be limited by the 550$ factory rifle also.
    i can't expect it to shoot like a multi thousand $ gun either.

    as far as changing only one thing at a time during load development i tought
    it's what i was doing. i changed only the powder charge in the initial test.
    and on the second time out, i changed only COAL. but maybe i dont get this right?

    thank's again
     
  12. ICANHITHIMMAN

    ICANHITHIMMAN Well-Known Member

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    Il semble que vous avez une meilleure compréhension que j'ai été amené à le croire. Je pense basés hors de votre responce vous allez avoir zéro émission le découvrir par vous-même. Vous et moi ne vivons que éloignés, je vis à Rochester, NY.
     
  13. 300remum

    300remum Member

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    yes! only about 8h drive :)