New to reloading. Need help asap.

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by shooters, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    Hello. I've spent a few hours searching and found most of the answers, but still have questions. I have a factory 300 RUM Sendero ll. I just started reloading and I am completely lost on things like, bumping the shoulder, only half neck size, only partial full length resize, etc.... It seems very easy for me to just full length, trim, etc... and of course checking wall thickness, reaming, etc.. But whether or not to full resize or neck really confuses me. I realize its harder on the brass to always full length, but it seems there is a lot less I have to check and worry about. Besides, what is a bag of brass every year or two. No biggy. If I had a Shilion barrel, McMillian stock, trigger, etc.... well, a custom rifle, then I would for sure be using fire formed brass and doing everything I could to gain the most accuracy as possible, but........

    ......is there "that" big of a difference in a "factory" rifle to go ahead and only neck size and using fire formed cases over using full resized brass? I enjoy shooting out to 7&800 yards, but only on targets. I'm not near good enough or confident enough to take a shot at an animal at that range, but am out to 500 yards. If I were to shoot at extreme long range, then I would be doing everything possible with my brass to gain the most accuracy as possible.

    I have lots of fired brass and would like to use it, but I'm unsure on what to look for in reloading it beside trimming it. I don't know what I'm reallying looking at when looking at the shoulder, the neck wall thickness, etc. How many reloads can I load before worrying about the shoulder moving forward, ejection broblems, wall thickness? I would like to use the fired brass, but have no real knowledge on it. I've preped all the brass as far as weighing it all, deburring, primer pocket uniformidy, etc... If there is not that big of a difference in formed brass and full lenghth, then I'll full resize. If there is a thread somewhere on here and someone can point me in the right direction, thanks.

    Also, my RUM has a very generous throat. It would be a single shot if I wanted it .010 off the lands. So, another question, to get the most accuracy out of bullet depth, how far under over all magazine length do you seat your bullets to where there are no problems with magazine feed issues?

    Any help would be great. I need to load tonight to sight in tomorrow to finish off the last 3 days of season.
    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. Jeremybj

    Jeremybj Well-Known Member

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    I'll answer 2 of your questions. First, in my opinion, I can't shoot well enough to see a difference between a full length size and a neck size. After I fire the brass through my gun the first time, I neck size, but only for the reason of prolonging the case life, not for accuracy reasons. I have a 270 win mag that I only full length size because I'm too cheap to buy a neck sizing die. Second, go as long as your magazine will let you, my bullets got to a point where they simply wouldn't feed from the magazine, that is when you know your bullets are too long. One thing I did notice when they got to be too long is on a FULL magazine, the first round wouldn't feed, but the other 4 would, so I just went from 4+1 to 3+1 in my magazine and it worked fine. But if I load to just off lands, I have to single feed them.
     

  3. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    So I'm not crazy. I actually did that same thing. I loaded to where they would feed from the mag no problem. As soon as I loaded several into the mag, they would not feed. One at a time, no problem. As close to the mag as possible, they are sooo far out from the lans. I'll probably just keep everything to the book, full length, and call it good. I've ran out of time. Thanks for the help.
     
  4. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    I give thanks on Thanksgiving to anyone willing to help me out .....in a hurry. Just went to range again.... Dope chart says to be dead on at 275, I should be .5 inches high at 50 yards. I am. 3 rounds, same hole. Cleaned gun and removed all copper. Went to 100 yards. Chart says 2.5 inches at 100. 3 rounds pretty much same hole. All touching. Cleaned gun. 200 yards, suppose to be 2.7 inches high. I am ALL over the place. High, low, right, left??? Cleaned gun, tried again. Same thing. Like a 6 inch group. Cleaned gun, went to 300 yards. Suppose to be 1.5 inches low, was 5 inches low, 9 inches low, 5 inches left, 7 inches low. Just all over the place. Loaded to exact book specs for 200 grain Accubond, 94gr Retumbo, 2.840 brass Rem brass, Fed 215 primers, full resized. 3.600 OAL. I have never built loads before, so I'm so lost. Is this a scope issue? Rings or base? Load issue? The scope is the top Sightron Slll 6-24x50 with Seekins rings and base. 300 RUM has a Kirby break on it, so I'm not sure if the scope can't handle the forces or what. I would have thought that if I could have 3 rounds touching at 100 yards, then the gun would obviously be shooting well out to longer ranges. Is the bullet not stabilized yet? Is this what its like when loads are in need of tweaking? I would have assumed that at 100 yards and that kind of group, it was a good load. I'm shooting off a lead sled. Does that effect accuracy? I am 100% sure it is NOT me. Recoil/noise does not bother me even though there is zero with Kirby's break and the lead sled. That thing is rock solid on target. Please help. Does this sound like a load issue or a scope/rings/mount issue? Thanks.
     
  5. Nitroman

    Nitroman Well-Known Member

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    It does sound like mounts/rings.
     
  6. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    I re torqued everything and all felt great. Didn't appear anything was loose or that there was any movement. Is it common to develope a load that shoots great out to 100 yards, then falls apart out furthur on? I realize the scope I have on thier is not a night force, but there were a lot of recommendations on the high end $1000 sightrons from this site. I know there are bad eggs now and again, but are they just not great at holding up with the breaks? Its brand new.
     
  7. veriest1

    veriest1 Well-Known Member

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    My dad and I have only been reloading for a few years now but one thing we've seen time and time again is that we need all the data we can get. And sometimes we need to go back and test for that data again. The more data you have the better you can interpret what the paper, the chrono, and the brass are telling you.

    Whether the scope is holding zero will be easy to check. Just go back to 100 yards and see if you get a good group.

    I haven't had this issue myself but have heard of similar problems being solved by adjusting for parallax.

    I've also heard of some guns doing this with some bullets and not with others. If the hardware checks out then try a different bullet. And how does the gun do at 200 yards with factory loads?

    Are you shooting from the same type of rest at each range?
     
  8. CRNA

    CRNA Well-Known Member

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    First thought that comes to mind: was the wind blowing?
     
  9. veriest1

    veriest1 Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't exactly sound like wind. Can you post pictures of the targets?
     
  10. Mike6158

    Mike6158 Well-Known Member

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    The thing that's bugging me about the situation is going from hole in a hole at 100 yards to all over the place at 200 and beyond. I've seen my loads get worse at longer range but not that much worse. The reality is that once you get to 300 yards the number of variables that affect the group goes up exponentially. INCLUDING the shooter. I'm not saying that is the root problem but it could be "part" of the problem. For me personally, it's always a part of the problem that cannot be discounted. That said, I think that it's something else... continuing on along that train of thought...

    Are you absolutely positive that your charge weights are the same? How do you determine charge weight? When I plug your numbers into the G7 program the only drop it likes at 300 yards is your initial value of 1.5. The program back calculates velocity at around 2633fps. The minimum velocity listed in the Sierra Loading Manual, for a .300 RUM and a 200gr. SMK is 2700 fps and the "green" load (accuracy and hunting) is, for most powders, 3000 fps. They list 92.0 grains of Retumbo as their 3,000 fps load.

    I think your charges are lighter than what you think they are and the bullet is not stable... In fact I think you may be dangerously underloaded but I'm just one of many internet voices so take that with a grain of salt.
     
  11. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    Neck vs. Full Length resizing...for me, I generally try to neck size only as I feel having a cartridge that is fireformed to perfectly match your rifle's chamber is best. For those that say you need to full length resize for a hunting rifle to ensure smooth loading is an issue that I have never run into.

    There is one exception to this rule for me. That is on my 300RUM. When loading neck sized brass for this rifle, the bolt will not always close. As a result, I full length resize this brass and 'bump' the shoulder back .001 or .002

    Here's a great post about full length sizing and bumping the shoulder...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/setting-up-full-length-die-45401/
     
  12. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    As far as charge weights, I loaded exactly to the Nosler book. I have another thread (sorry for mulitple threads) in the Long Range Hunting and Shooting section. I reloaded from 91 gr up to max of 95. I use two scales, both digital whenn weighing EVERY charge. The Hornady scale and, I can't rembmer off the top of my head, but something like TMG or TMN scale. Its a little red digital scale. I make sure the read ecxact. Still working on this issue. Loading up tonight to shoot tomorrow. Again, another thread in a different section that there has been discussion on if you would like to see what else has been mentioned. Thanks a ton for all the help guys.
     
  13. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    I would encourage you to verify your charge weights with a balance beam scale. I have a RCBS Chargemaster and I have seen variances of .2 grains when verifying on my balance beam scale. A buddy of mine had the Hornady equivalent and experienced the same.
     
  14. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    I for sure will invest in a scale as well. Forgive the ignorance here, just going off what I've heard or been told, but a local guy here in town said these large magnums could care less about a half grain difference. That seems like a lot to me. I weigh them out to be exact every time. I mentioned to him that I considered working in .5 grain loads and he said to not even bother. Either 1.0 up or down, but don't worry about the half grain loads, there pointless in a large mag. Not sure if there is any truth to that or not. Thanks again.