Neck Bushing Sizes

[Allen Kitts]

I recently had an issue with a set of Hornady Custom Dies for my 7mm LRM. I shot some rounds over the weekend in my 7LRM collecting load data for a new bullet size I wanted to try. After the range session I went home and started to clean and prep the rounds for another load. All went smoothly until I went to seat bullets and the bullets just fell into the cases. Odd, so I grabbed a couple more once fired cases from the morning session and ran them through the resizing die. I full length resize. Same issue. The cases are fine in the rifle, I chambered them to make sure there was no issue there but the necks will not hold the bullets. The die has a .316 bushing inside of it. Please note that I have loaded several hundred once fired pieces of brass and have never had this issue. I took the die apart and could not see anything that was noticeable to the naked eye. The .316 bushing came with the Die Set I received when I bought the rifle. How do you determine what size the bushing should be if I was to order a new one?

My question is has anyone else ever experienced anything like this? I am hoping it is something simple and that once someone states it I will kick myself in the rear end and fix the issue. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Gunwerks 7mm LRM Brass
Hornady Custom Full Length Dies
.316 bushing
Berger 195 Grain EOL Bullets
Federal 215M Primers
69.5 Grains of H-1000
I don't have the COAL or BTO measurement but the measurements match up to the COAL and BTO of the factory ammo I received from Gunwerks when I bought the rifle.
All rounds fired show no signs of excess pressure on the case head or on bolt lift.

 

[Axl]

Here is reddings take on it. Measure the neck of a loaded round and subtract .001"

Bushing Selection - Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

Reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers, custom dies, bullet casting equipment, powder measuring and weighing equipment, bullet seating dies

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[243winxb]

Necks can thin a little with a few loadings. I was using .001" neck tension to start. After a few loadings, went 1 bushing smaller. More a problem if not neck turning.

What brand is your bushing? Some will size .0005" smaller on one end.

My Reddng bushings should have the size stamping facing the case mouth. This keeps the bushing for getting crooked when it makes contact with the bushing stop.

I have 3 bushings.

 

[rsmithsr]

lots of missing information
turned necks ?
were the loads sized with this die ?
what is the neck dia of the chamber ?

 

[Roninco]

I had a similar issue with my first Redding Bushing Die. After the third firing the bullet would fall through the neck. Eventually discovered the nut on the decapping rod was too high and the bushing was floating too high in the die and not contacting the neck. I was not using the decapping pin at the time. Screw the entire stem down until it contacts the bushing then back it off just a bit so the bushing will float.

 

[Allen Kitts]

Necks can thin a little with a few loadings. I was using .001" neck tension to start. After a few loadings, went 1 bushing smaller. More a problem if not neck turning.

What brand is your bushing? Some will size .0005" smaller on one end.

My Reddng bushings should have the size stamping facing the case mouth. This keeps the bushing for getting crooked when it makes contact with the bushing stop.

I have 3 bushings.

Hornady Bushings

 

[Allen Kitts]

lots of missing information
turned necks ?
were the loads sized with this die ?
what is the neck dia of the chamber ?

I do not turn necks
The initial loads were brand new brass so these were once fired
I don't know the neck diameter of the chamber, how do I find that information?

 

[Blackhawk]

I recently had an issue with a set of Hornady Custom Dies for my 7mm LRM. I shot some rounds over the weekend in my 7LRM collecting load data for a new bullet size I wanted to try. After the range session I went home and started to clean and prep the rounds for another load. All went smoothly until I went to seat bullets and the bullets just fell into the cases. Odd, so I grabbed a couple more once fired cases from the morning session and ran them through the resizing die. I full length resize. Same issue. The cases are fine in the rifle, I chambered them to make sure there was no issue there but the necks will not hold the bullets. The die has a .316 bushing inside of it. Please note that I have loaded several hundred once fired pieces of brass and have never had this issue. I took the die apart and could not see anything that was noticeable to the naked eye. The .316 bushing came with the Die Set I received when I bought the rifle. How do you determine what size the bushing should be if I was to order a new one?

My question is has anyone else ever experienced anything like this? I am hoping it is something simple and that once someone states it I will kick myself in the rear end and fix the issue. Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Gunwerks 7mm LRM Brass
Hornady Custom Full Length Dies
.316 bushing
Berger 195 Grain EOL Bullets
Federal 215M Primers
69.5 Grains of H-1000
I don't have the COAL or BTO measurement but the measurements match up to the COAL and BTO of the factory ammo I received from Gunwerks when I bought the rifle.
All rounds fired show no signs of excess pressure on the case head or on bolt lift.

Question: Have you annealed any of your virgin or once fired brass?
Brass is softer than you chambers wall and will conform accordingly.
Your brass shells forward momentum is stopped when shoulder shoulder to chamber wall is experienced.
This in turn places stress on your case necks and eventually will lead to a molecular hardening of brass.
Let me qualify my last statement.
Each manufacturer of brass shell cases whether for pistol or rifle will use different materials in different amounts during the manufacturing process.
This will mean that different brands of brass even in the same caliber are not entirely equal because of the manufacturing process that they are use.
I have encountered the same issiues that you are talking about and this is how I overcame them !

After decapping , using a universal depriming tool , and deburring the inside of your cases flash holes examine your cases for any defects. then please continue reading. ( pretty much S.O.P. )

The following is my established and range proven procedure !

1). Tumble clean using steel pin media at least 1/2 hour. ( this will remove most of the carbon and unburned powder residue)
Starting with a clean and lubricated case.
2) FL resize using Match Grade Bushing Die and appropriate bushing with the stamped numbers on the bushing facing up (I'm assuming that you are using the Horandy Match grade die set caliber specific as the custom grade dies have no provision for bushings to be correctly inserted) The Hornady Custom Die Sets are using a tapered expander which will also hold your depriming pin and therefore will not accept a neck sizing bushing without a lot of internal die modification having been performed ! Additionally by removal of the tapered expander assembly you also will be removing your decapping pin leaving no way to deprime your brass. ( I believe you meant to say My Horandy Match Grade FL Resizing Die )
Grab a completely assembled round and use a .0001" micrometer to establish your case necks OD ( outside diameter) Record this figure for reference or in my case.
I will construct a dummy round sans the powder and primer and subtract .-002" from the neck diameter . To that add -.001 to allow for brass spring back. This makes a starting point of -.003"of your cases necks OD. (this is for referencing only and may need further refinement)
To reiterate , this is only a starting point and may need as in your case to be adjusted accordingly.
To that end if you are still having trouble with your overall bullet seating depth you will need to buy the next smaller size bushing. ( you may even have to go smaller in order to achieve your required neck tension )
Continued From Above

3) Bump shoulder -.002" using Redding Body die and correct competition shell holder.
4) Trim to correct length
5) Champher ID, & Deburr neck OD
5B) Using the Sinclair expander tool (caliber specific) Expand case necks ID +.001 to enable smooth fit on neck turning tool's arbor ( only need to perform this step one time )
6) Turn Case Neck OD s to establish concentricity-. 0002 -. 0005" ( again only need for virgin or first time fire formed cases )
7) Tumble cases with steel pin media 1 1/2 hrs.
8) Place in case dryer @ 158 degrees for 1 hour ( this procedure will yield a Clean brass that does not have water spots or stains )
9A Reason for cleaning prior to annealing is to prevent a foreign matter from cross contamination of case necks
9) Anneal Case Necks
10) After Case necks are cool wipe clean. ( I personally do not object to the discoloration of the annealed cases. On the contrary it will serve vas an indicator that these cases have been annealed. )
11) FL resize a second time and change out neck bushing to -.001 smaller size ( because of the heat involved during annealing I resize my case necks to ensure the correct neck tension. Additional reason is because of the case necks expansion performed during step #5B )
11) Prime all cases
12) Load correct powder charge
13) Seat bullet to the correct jump COAL. , depending on which rifle and what bullet is being used.
14) Using a factory crimp die slightly apply an extremely light crimp. (Optionally)
15 Indicate bullet for total run out and adjust as or if need be
16) Shoot rounds through a chronograph during load development using a ladder test in order to obtain your lowest ES, and SD numbers
17) Now you are ready to enjoyably fire your weapon and obtain some quality trigger time!
Please note you may consider changing your brand of brass as well as checking your cases necks OD in order to reestablish or obtain new dimensions and act accordingly.
The short end of this is that it sounds as though you will need to increase your bullets seating tension with a reduction of your sizing bushings. This will be a trial and error approach ! You must rule out each variable encountered along the way until you find the appropriate solution.

Yes my way is a lot of additional work .
However to me it is a labor of love !
I hope this will get your creative juices flowing.
Just my 2 Cents worth!

 

[Allen Kitts]

Question: Have you annealed any of your virgin or once fired brass?
Brass is softer than you chambers wall and will conform accordingly.
Your brass shells forward momentum is stopped when shoulder to chamber is experienced.
This in turn placed stress on your case necks and eventually will lead to a molecular hardening of brass.
Let me qualify my last statement.
Each manufacturer of brass shell cases whether for pistol or rifle will use different materials in different amounts during the manufacturing process.
This will mean that different brands of brass even in the same caliber are not entirely equal because of the manufacturing process that they are use.
I have encountered the same issiues that you are talking about and this is what I did.
First After depriming , using a universal depriming tool and deburring your flash hole.
Examine your cases for any defects. then follow along.

The following is my established and range proven procedure !

1). Tumble clean using steel pin media at least 1/2 hour. ( this will remove most of the carbon and unburned powder residue)
Starting with a clean and lubricated case.
2) FL resize using bushing die (I'm assuming that you are using the Horandy Match grade die set caliber specific as the custom grade dies have no provision for bushings to be correctly inserted) The Hornady Custom Die Sets are using a tapered expander which will also hold your depriming pin and therefore will not accept a neck sizing bushing without a lot of internal die modification having been performed !

I will make a fully assembled dummy round and subtract .-002" from your neck diameter . To that add -.001 to allow for brass spring back. This makes a starting point of -.003"of your cases necks OD. (this is for referencing only and may need further refinement)
To reiterate , this is only a starting point and may need as in your case to be adjusted accordingly.
To that end if you are still having trouble with your overall bullet seating depth you will need to buy the next smaller size bushing.
Continued From Above

3) Bump shoulder-.002" using Redding Body die and correct competition shell holder.
4) Trim to correct length
5) Champher ID, & Deburr neck OD
6) Turn Case Neck OD s to establish concentricity-. 0002 -. 0005"
7) Tumble cases with steel pin media 1 1/2 hrs.
8) Place in case dryer @ 158 degrees for 1 hour
9A Reason for cleaning prior to annealing is to prevent a foreign matter from cross contamination of case necks
9) Anneal Case Necks
10) After Case necks are cool wipe clean.
11) FL resize and change out neck bushing to -.001 smaller size ( because of the heat involved during annealing I resize my case necks to ensure the correct neck tension )
11) Prime all cases
12) Load correct powder charge
13) Seat bullet to the correct jump COAL.
14) Using a factory crimp die slightly apply an extremely light crimp. (Optionally)
15 Indicate bullet for total run out and adjust as or if need be
16) Shoot rounds through a chronograph during load development using a ladder test in order to obtain your lowest ES, and SD numbers
17) Now you are ready to enjoyably fire your weapon and obtain some quality trigger time!
Please note you may consider changing your brand of brass aa well as checking your cases necks OD in order to reestablish or obtain new dimensions and act accordingly.
The short end of this is that it sounds as though you will need to increase your bullets seating tension with a reduction of your sizing bushings. This will be a trial and error approach ! You must rule out each variable encountered along the way until you find the appropriate solution.

Yes my way is a lot of additional work .
However to me it is a labor of love !
I hope this will get your creative juices flowing.
Just my 2 Cents worth!

Thanks for the information. I really appreciate it.

 

[243winxb]

I don't know the neck diameter of the chamber, how do I find that information?

Fired brass neck diameter is about .001" smaller then a chamber , after spring back.
But not always. It takes

near maximum pressure to fully expand necks.

My busing is set to size only 1/2 of the neck. The unsized part of the neck will fully expand to the chamber after 3 or more firings. After a while, brass will no longer spring back on the neck part that is not sized.

 

[entoptics]

Using a 0.316 bushing seems a little big for a 0.284 bullet...

0.316 + 0.001 = 0.317 neck OD (brass will spring back a little after sizing)

I've used a ball micrometer on a dozen rifle calibers, and the thickest neck wall I've ever seen is 264WM at ~0.016". Most other calibers, including my 7mm Rem Mag are more like 0.014" - 0.015" (some as low as 0.0125"). The necks can thin even more from repeated firing and trimming.

So...

0.317 - (2 x 0.015) = 0.287 ID...

You'd need no spring back, and thicker than average neck walls to get down around the correct 0.001-0.002" neck tension of 0.282 - 0.283" inner diameter. e.g. 0.316 - (2 x 0.0165) = 0.283" ID

I'd just buy a smaller bushing. Probably .314". Do you have access to a ball micrometer? If so, just measure the neck walls in 4-6 places around the neck, get the average number and apply the above math to get a 0.282" - 0.283" neck ID.

I got this one from Amazon, and it works well down to 0.0003 or so.

 

[Mikecr]

Just grab the calipers and measure your loaded necks. Read the calipers and your answer should pop up right over your head (often looks kinda like a light bulb).

 

[bigedp51]

In the Whidden bushing die video below he recommends a bushing .003 to .005 smaller for hunting neck tension. And .001 to .003 smaller for long range competition shooting.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Lots of formulas here, so I'll post what is working for me..

bullet dia + 2x(neck thickness)- neck tension-sizing springback = bushing size

tonight this was .308 + 2x0.0137" - 0.002 - 0.0008 = 0.3326 or 0.333

IMO, the 0.0008" varies 0.0005-0.001 or so...

Also, this is neck turned brass. You may have to use the min neck thickness of 3-5 brass.