Mil-dot vs. BDC

[sscoyote]

I'm a ballistic reticle guy through and through--to about 600 yds. or so then it's onto turrets. Fact is, any reticle (and turret) can be used for both rangefinding and downrange zeroing--all based on the mil-ranging formula.

I prefer tree reticle systems for downrange zeroing for a more accurate system of windage reference relative to the MD when it's applied for both vertical and horizontal compensation.

 

[Loner]

Ranging is based on angles and a circle. degrees, minutes and seconds have been
around for centuries. Much more accurate than milliradians or the slightly modified milliradian known as a mil. Star positioning theodolites were developed all the way to tenth seconds. 15 Seconds would be 1/4 moa. Mils were designed to make the math of the milliradian easier to use. The French had originally adapted the math of radians
to artillery ranging. As nato went to metric so did our military except for navigation.
If you think in yards iphy is much easier to do in your head if you have to. If you think
in meters mils is easier. I got all caught up in the mildot thing in the mid 90's and have
since switched to buying iphy on all my new scopes as I have done a fair amount of surveying so degrees, minutes and seconds are more natural. With charts and calculators there is little difference. I do not like using the original dot that was a result of wire
reticles being formed with the dots in them. They had no other way of marking them.
With the advent of etched reticles there is no reason to have an actual dot unless you
are already trained in their use and find it easier to use than to change.
True moa would be my last choice for a scope system. Why go through the extra step
in the math to bring you to your true yardage.
And to answer your question about scopes that dial under 500.00 I would be looking
at vortex or sightron. Both company's seem to offer a lot for your money these days
and have fantastic warranty service. Vortex being impeccable with their warranty. You
may have to go a little higher than 500.00 but not much.

 

[Jon A]

But mil dot scopes are not made for hold
over, they are made for rangefinding, Bullet Drop Compensators are designed for just that. They each have a distinct advantage in their appropriate field of use.

You've been mis-informed. Mil dots are used for holdover a heck of a lot more than they are for ranging and they always have been.

While I have found a good BDC reticle (I don't really consider the Nikon a "good" one) is about the fastest thing there is out to 500-600 yds, in the end a straight Mil (or MOA) reticle is much more versitile. You are not married to any load or set of ballistics--they'll work with anything. And even if you do dial elevation, you can still use the marks to very accurately hold wind. Many BDC reticles lack any marks for that on the horizontal crosshair.

 

[ishootkittens]

thats true! I appreciate it man!

 

[Loner]

You've been mis-informed. Mil dots are used for holdover a heck of a lot more than they are for ranging and they always have been.

While I have found a good BDC reticle (I don't really consider the Nikon a "good" one) is about the fastest thing there is out to 500-600 yds, in the end a straight Mil (or MOA) reticle is much more versitile. You are not married to any load or set of ballistics--they'll work with anything. And even if you do dial elevation, you can still use the marks to very accurately hold wind. Many BDC reticles lack any marks for that on the horizontal crosshair.

Seems to me I covered all that in my posts.

 

[mikebob]

Any reticle with markings on it can be used for ranging or drop compensating. Even
the old lupy duplex is a rangefinder of sorts. But mil dot scopes are not made for hold
over, they are made for rangefinding, Bullet Drop Compensators are designed for just
that. They each have a distinct advantage in their appropriate field of use. And I have
moa scopes that are made for rangefinding, that wasn't the op's question.

I believe he was responding to this post. Where you said they were only designed for rangefinding.

Which is not true

 

[Loner]

I think I covered the reasons here. It just seems some people are so hung on what
they use they leave little room for anything else. The OP is new to this and needs to
explore the various stuff out there to get a feel for what will work best for him. The
fact that the military made up a range chart for a mildot scope doesn't mean it was
designed for hold over. It's just an inherent quality of the mildot system that it can
be used for that purpose. Unlike a BDC that is designed for the task. I personally don't
own but one bdc scope reticle and have memorized the lines in moa instead of drop.
It's all what works for the individual.
Let me add the math is my main reason for liking iphy. I think distances in yards.
I can add two zeros on the end of my target height in inches and divide by the Iphy
reading in my head. I can also correct that by 5% for moa in my head. I cannot
take the height of my target in inches , times it by 27.78 and divide it by the mil
reading in my head. I would venture to say very few hunters can. Now if you
think in meters it's the way to go Height of target in cm x 10 divided by mils.

I don't know about the nikon specifically but if you have a drop compensator made
up for a certain load and gun it's markings, whether on the turrets or in the reticle
will be on 100, 150,200,250,300 etc.. or the graduations of your choice. A moa or
mildot scope your load will be on the marks at random distances. 110, 168, 214, 278
etc.. Now you can adjust your aim for it but it is not as convenient as having them on
the major yardages. Inch per hundred yard or IPHY reticles and dials are my personnel
favorite.
Do some reading on how to use the various scopes you are interested in and you will
gain an understanding of how they work and what they do best. Most of us use rangefinders.
The only time I really use my scopes ranging finding capabilities in the field has been during
snowfalls and very cold temps when my rangefinder failed.

 

[mikebob]

jwp475 and Jon A were just pointing out to the guy wanting to know the differ in the two that the mildot was not just a rangefinding scope as you stated it was in your first post.

I believe you said mildot was for ranging and BDC was for traj. comp. and that was all you said

They were pointing out the mildot is also used for hold over and traj. comp. as well as rangefinding.

Your first post was pretty vague so they commented to help him out not to start anything with you.

 

[Loner]

I apologize that I came off defensive. You are right in the way I posted. I should
have put a little more thought into it before hitting the send button. This is a great
forum because of the easy going nature of the guys. I am sorry I even crowded the
line on that.

 

[mikebob]

I may pm you one of these days and discuss designing an etched reticle, I have a lupy I my try it on for a 22243.

 

[sp6x6]

I don't know about the nikon specifically but if you have a drop compensator made
up for a certain load and gun it's markings, whether on the turrets or in the reticle
will be on 100, 150,200,250,300 etc.. or the graduations of your choice. A moa or
mildot scope your load will be on the marks at random distances. 110, 168, 214, 278
etc.. Now you can adjust your aim for it but it is not as convenient as having them on
the major yardages. Inch per hundred yard or IPHY reticles and dials are my personnel
favorite.
Do some reading on how to use the various scopes you are interested in and you will
gain an understanding of how they work and what they do best. Most of us use rangefinders.
The only time I really use my scopes ranging finding capabilities in the field has been during
snowfalls and very cold temps when my rangefinder failed.

Loner, Here is some foood for thought, How is it more usefully if your hold over is 100 or 50 yrd increments, I t is not ,the game is not always standing at a said '' ROUND" yardage. You just have to know your holds. A majority of the world uses metric, I use a mill based reticle, for ranging,hold overs, and I dial. I find mils very easy to use,and use for ranging as you said, when a lazer doesnt work. All of the balistic reticles out are a compromise to the true balistic of particular rifle, but are very easy to use when verified

 

[Loner]

Not better 6x6, just easier to remember. As you get older it's a precious commodity
not to be squandered.

 

[sp6x6]

Ican hardly remember my name, my gun looks like one big sticky note

 

[Loner]

Yea, same here, I put packing tape over all mine so they don't weather.