Issues with 300SMK at 1335yrds

[300rum]

Hi to everyone,

It was a long time from last visiting this site, but my work got very bizzy, so I cut it off for a while,
So... Here is my problem,
I got last week out for 3 days deer hunting in Rockies, and due to all long training, and lots of hours on the fiels shooting at very long distances (up to 1950yrds), finally i got the opportunity to get one deer at 1335yrd.
I got in position, 3 witness, and one video camera ready to record the shot, and after imputting the condition with 4mph wind from 9 o'clock, i let one loose.
I aimed for behind the front sholder, deer facing at 3 o'clock.
After recovery I see the impact and the deer duccking so bad - touching the ground with the belly, and then she stend up and run 40yrds. She stood there as nothing happend and after few seconds she start feeding.
I run the camera tape on and one, and it was clear hit, but she failed to die.
Did somebody from this forum get the same situation at past 1300yrd, with 300SMK from 338edge or 338LM.
At that distance I was at 1650fps and 1558 bullet energy left.

I push 300SMK at 2850fps
Shooting condition
861mbr
69%humidity
4mph wind from 9 o'clock
36F temperature
0.99 uphill shot

How do you guys take deer at past 1300yrds with 300skm?
Sholder hit, or just boiler room(behind the sholder)
Any advised will be more then welcome.

 

[Bravo 4]

Sorry man but I can't advise on 1300yards + with the 300SMK, all mine have been well under that.

But I can comment on the animal's reaction to the hit- They simply don't know they are gonna die! Your shot was so far away that she didn't know what happened. My opinion is it sounds like it failed to have much if any expansion and zipped right through, you will never know if there was no recovery.
Last year my daughter shot her first deer. It was a doe standing a little over 100yards away and she hit it behind the shoulder with a 162gr SST from my 7mm Mag. The deer ran about 30yards after the shot, looked around and then started feeding again. Blood was pouring out of the devastating hit and after about 30 seconds round #2 through both front shoulders put it down for good. Your deer, if hit in the vitals, is probably laying dead somewhere.

 

[jeff 300]

I would like to see that video if you can may help to get an answer to your trouble.
did you go look for blood are see if you could find the animal?????

 

[300rum]

I got the sot last 10 minute before dark, and when i got there it was to late to track even my boots prints. forecat and fogy.
I have to edit the video in few deys and then i will post it for rewiew.

 

[projp]

What did you find the next day when you went back to look for the deer when it was light?

 

[edge]

SNIP.

I got in position, 3 witness, and one video camera ready to record the shot, and after imputting the condition with 4mph wind from 9 o'clock, i let one loose.
I aimed for behind the front sholder, deer facing at 3 o'clock.

SNIP.

"deer facing at 3 o'clock", is this broadside or is this quartering?

I think that at long range you need to anchor the animal....meaning a shoulder shot.
Any reason you didn't send another bullet at it when it started feeding again?

Video should tell the story of where the bullet impacted. If the deer was quartering the bullet may have hit too far back.

edge.

 

[davewilson]

i've talked with people that have 40 years of long range hunting experience and their knowedge is based on quite a few others with a huge amount of experience. i've heard quite a few, not just a couple stories where the 300smk just doesn't open up. all of these would be on deer. i've experimented with opening up the hollow point a little to up my chances the bullet will come apart/expand. when doing this i found some of these hollow points weren't hollow at all but filled with some sort of wax or whatever. my personal opinion is the bullets that just pencil through are the ones that have the hollow points clogged with "stuff" i've read experiments where the hollow point was opened up different amounts and it was determined that the SMK's would open every time when they had and opening of .050 or greater.

 

[Fiftydriver]

There are several things that likely happened. First of all, if you hit the deer its more then likely dead. I hope you went back the next day and put in the time to find the deer or at least Prove to the best of your ability that it did not die.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I DO NOT like taking long range shots at last light, EVER. I much prefer to take long range shots in the morning for the very reason you discribed.

About the 300 gr SMK. They are a bit funny, all the matchkings are. In fact they expand much more like a Barnes X bullet then a conventional HP lead core bullet design. By this I mean they will penetrate 5-7" before they really begin to open up.

At the range you shot at, retained velocity is marginal so it will need even more penetration length to expand the bullet. This is because the big HP cavity will cave in on itsself first and then once that happens, the lead core is then forced to deform.

Alot of guys will shoot for behind the shoulder at long range, I personally am not a huge fan of that. I personally aim for bone, trying to break at least one shoulder and hopefully pinning both putting the critter on its chin instantly. At long range, we can never pin the conditions perfectly but if you are off on the wind and take a behind the shoulder aim, its pretty easy to get one through the liver or even a bit farther back and at that range, the shot placement can look better then what it really is. If your error is the other way, likely you will miss the target cleanly ahead of the shoulders or clip very non lethal parts of the target.

Another issue is that if you hit solid bone, your bullet will expand much more reliably at long range.

I would say in your situation, your velocity was a bit marginal, the target was likely pretty thin and light where you hit it so bullet expansion was not overly impressive and more then likely, the doe is still dead somewhere.....

Again, I hope you put in the time to follow up on the shot the next day to prove to the best of your ability the doe did not die...........

 

[Don Ward]

With a cavity hit and any expansion, a deer going back to feeding is odd. Really with any hit it is pretty odd. It does happen, but is usually followed by the deer tipping over. I bowhunt quite a bit and it occasionally happens when you zip an arrow completely through (still rare), but just not something you see much with rifle hits.

Hard to say without being there and seeing it, but at that range it takes a serious amount of zoom to get any detail on video. We film HD with 20X zoom and past 600-700 yards it gets tough to see details like impact locations unless there is visible trauma.

Is it possible you had a near miss and the deer just reacted to the bullet whizzing past?

 

[projp]

I was going to keep my mouth shut, but an incident similar to yours yesterday changed my mind. I took my nephew out on the youth deer hunt. He has never taken a deer and his dad was busy so off we went. We saw a lot of does and a veeery little spike. With about 15 minutes of light left we spotted a two point at about 200 yards. He is a pretty good shot and has practiced so I thought it was within his limits. At the shot he, (the deer), seemed to jump a little and I heard it hit. The deer then turned and and nonchalantly walked away presenting no followup shot. After the initial jump and, "whap", the deer showed absolutely no signs of being hit. We followed up and found the deer dead about 75 yards over the hill. He had made a great lung shot going between ribs on both sides.
Earlier in the year my buddy drew a mountain goat tag. Shortly before dark he shot at billy and we thought he hit it. We looked until dark and then got out the lights and looked some more. The next day we were there at first light and couldn't come up with any thing. We hunted the general area for 2 more days and eventually shot one about a 1/4 of a mile from where we saw the first one. I would like to believe that it was the same goat, (probably not), but at this point were were OK that we had done all we could on the first one.
Sorry if this comes across as a little preachy, but the reason I put a little more effort into taking care of the animals is that when i was younger there were times that I did not and later regrettred it.

Good hunting
Jeff

 

[Yrcan]

When we hunt big game in Norway, we are not allowed to hunt unless we have a contract with a guy who has a dog that has been approved for sniffing up wounded animals. I have a German Sheppard myself, and next year he will be license for this kind of tasks. I'm glad we have this arrangement, the dogs allways find the deer, IF it has been hit and there is a little blodshed.

I need to ask another question, a little off topic maybe. Is the SMK bullet really designed to be used as a hunting bullet? If so, what are your experiences with it? I am building a 338 Edge now, and will be using the 300 gr SMK. I also shoot LR with a 300 WM, and use a 200 gr SMK there. If I shoot a deer with the 200 SMK, will it have the same effect on the deer, like a Nosler Accubond?

Thanks

 

[elkaholic]

I can just about guarantee that a 300 grain, or any other SMK, will not open at those velocities, and neither will a berger, although they are better than the SMK for expanding at lower velocities. I have done a lot of bullet testing and it just is not going to happen at those ranges even if shot right in the shoulder. You simply don't have enough meplat diameter and nothing to start the expansion even the though the jacket is fairly thin. In the bullets that I make for long range, the meplat is .200" with a needle point ballistic tip for high B.C. The jacket is only .014" at the nose and this is the only type of bullet that will perform effectively at those ranges. At close range they act like a hand grenade which I proved last week in Mt. I practiced for extreme range and ended up shooting a bull with my 300 Sherman with one of my 190 SXR bullets at about 100 yards. I intentionally shot him behind the shoulder and blew a golf ball sized hole on the entry side and then demolished the lungs. The bull went NOWHERE and the only thing I found in tact was the Aluminum ballistic tip. This is a sierra jacket by the way!.......Rich