Is it possible to launch a bullet over 2000mph?

LDHunter said:
I thought my Raptor was fast until I pulled up beside a Roush F-150 Nitemare!
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I live near Houston and drive by Hennessey every few weeks. If you think the Roush is fast, you haven't watched one of these smoke a Corvette Z06.

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Chamberman said:
The .30-378 was originally designed by Roy Weatherby as an anti-personnel/anti-materiel military cartridge for a government contract.[4] The cartridge was created by necking down the .378 Weatherby Magnum to accept a .308 in (7.8 mm) diameter bullet. The United States Army's Redstone Arsenal requested a rifle cartridge that could develop 6,000 ft/s (1,800 m/s) for the effects of light bullets against armor. The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum was able to attain over 5,000 ft/s (1,500 m/s). Using a slower burning and denser propellant, the .30-378 Weatherby Magnum surpassed the US Army's requirement of 6,000 ft/s (1,800 m/s).[5]
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Do you have a time frame for when this took place?
My reason for asking is that several wildcatters including the late Howard Wolfe were experimenting with the 30x378 in the early 60s. Wolfe went so far as to create an action that would handle the cartridge. Weatherby didnt even have a suitable action untill the Mark V came along.
 
yobuck said:
Do you have a time frame for when this took place?
My reason for asking is that several wildcatters including the late Howard Wolfe were experimenting with the 30x378 in the early 60s. Wolfe went so far as to create an action that would handle the cartridge. Weatherby didnt even have a suitable action untill the Mark V came along.
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1959
 
Wallrat said:
The Military asked Weatherby to see how fast they could push a bullet. If I remember correctly , it was something like 10,000fps.
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Back ink the '50s a mechanical engineer named Walter Nass doing contract work for Weatherby used a bronze projectile weighing around 90 grains and pushed it to 6000 fps. This was per a Navy contract Weatherby had. No accuracy, just plain velocity.
 
Here is the full article on the 30-378.

The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum is a .30 caliber, belted, bottle-necked rifle cartridge.[2] The cartridge was developed in response to a US Army military contract in 1959. While still unreleased to the public, the cartridge went on to set world records for accuracy including the first ten 10X in 1,000 yards (910 m) benchrest shooting.[3] It is currently the highest velocity .30 caliber factory ammunition available.

Contents

Cartridge origin[edit]

The .30-378 was originally designed by Roy Weatherby as an anti-personnel/anti-materiel military cartridge for a government contract.[4] The cartridge was created by necking down the .378 Weatherby Magnum to accept a .308 in (7.8 mm) diameter bullet. The United States Army's Redstone Arsenal requested a rifle cartridge that could develop 6,000 ft/s (1,800 m/s) for the effects of light bullets against armor. The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum was able to attain over 5,000 ft/s (1,500 m/s). Using a slower burning and denser propellant, the .30-378 Weatherby Magnum surpassed the US Army's requirement of 6,000 ft/s (1,800 m/s).[5]

However, the shooting public had to wait until 1996 for Weatherby to release the cartridge.[6] In the meantime, the .30-378 Weatherby Magnum had gone on to set world records in 1,000 yards (910 m) benchrest competitions. Earl Chronister, shooting a .30-378 Weatherby Magnum shot the first ever ten shot 10X with the first nine shot to 3.125 inches and the tenth flyer for an overall group of 4.375 inches. This record stood for over 30 years. Several variations of the .30-378 Weatherby Magnum were created by custom ammunition manufacturers, known as wildcatters. Hammond rifles and H-S Precision were among the several custom gun manufacturers who chambered and built rifles long before Weatherby got around to releasing the rifle to the public.[5]

In 1991 Shooting Times editor Layne Simpson met with Ed Weatherby, the son of Weatherby Inc. founder Roy Weatherby, and urged him to release the .30-378 Weatherby to the public as a standard chambering in the Mark V action.[3] In 1995 Layne Simpson built a rifle chambered for the .30-378 Weatherby and developed loading data and passed the data on to Norma Precision to provide a basis for their factory loaded ammunition.[5]



Design and specification[edit]

The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum utilizes the .378 Weatherby Magnum as a parent cartridge. The .378 Weatherby case was necked down to accept a .30 caliber (7.62 mm) bullet while preserving the double radii shoulder of the parent case. The resulting case held a greater volume than any previous commercial cartridge.

When the cartridge was created by Roy Weatherby in 1959 there were no commercial propellants that suited the cartridge. Even the standard slow burning powder of the time IMR4350 which was used in the Weatherby line of cartridges was too fast to take advantage of the case capacity of the .30-378 Weatherby cartridge. The result was that performance advantage that was created by the volume of the .30-378 Weatherby was minimal over the competing .300 Weatherby Magnum cartridge, which had been introduced 25 years earlier. However, when launching 30 gr (1.9 g) bullets which are extremely light for caliber as the Redstone Arsenal contract specified, required the use of relatively faster propellants. However, the hunting public and target shooters used 150 gr and heavier bullets, which require slower burning powders due to the extreme overbore nature of the cartridge.

.30-378 Weatherby Magnum - SAAMI compliant (2013-11-30) dimensionsSAAMI compliant .30-378 Weatherby Magnum cartridge schematic: All dimensions in inches [millimeters].
SAAMI recommends a 6 groove barrel with a twist rate of 10 in (250 mm). The recommended bore diameter is .3005 in (7.63 mm) and groove diameter is .3080 in (7.82 mm) with each groove having an arc width of .118 in (3.0 mm).

Performance[edit]


The .30-378 has a much larger body diameter than the .300 Weatherby Magnum.
The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum is one of the most accurate rifle cartridges. The cartridge held the world record for accuracy at 1,000 yards (910 m) for over thirty years. Given factory ammunition, Weatherby guarantees 1.5 MOA accuracy from their Weatherby Mark V action rifles and sub-MOA (.99 MOA or better) accuracy from their Range Certified line of rifles and Vanguard rifle lines. Careful handloading – checking for bullet jacket concentricity, weighing of brass and bullets, uniformity of case length and overall cartridge length, choice of components, seating of bullet – can all increase the accuracy of the cartridge.

The .30-378 Weatherby Magnum is a long range cartridge. It is the most powerful - in terms of energy - .30 caliber production cartridge available.[7] It is also the flattest-shooting .30 caliber factory ammunition available. Dependent on the ammunition chosen the cartridge has a maximum point blank range of over 400 yd (370 m). The cartridge retains enough energy for deer-sized game at distances over 1,000 yd (910 m), and has enough retained energy for elk and moose-sized game at a distance of over 700 yd (640 m).[4]

Sporting usage[edit]

Like all Weatherby rifle cartridges the .30-378 Weatherby was designed to be a high performance hunting cartridge. When released to the public, it is intended for the hunting of all the big game species of North America, Asia and Africa, save dangerous game. Since this is a small bore caliber, hunting with the .30-378 Weatherby Magnum should be restricted to game less than 2,000 lb (910 kg).

Soon after the .30-378 Weatherby was designed it was adopted by the benchrest shooting community. It became popular among the 1,000 yards (910 m) shooting communities such as the Original 1,000 yards (910 m) Club of Pennsylvania and went on to shoot world records at that distance.[3][5]

The Thompson Long Range shooting school uses the .30-378 Weatherby due to its high accuracy and reliable performance.[8]
 
Here is the full article on the Introduction of the Weatherby Mark V.

The Weatherby Mark V is a centerfire, bolt-action rifle manufactured by Weatherby of Sheridan, Wyoming.[2] The rifle was introduced in 1957 by Weatherby and was designed to safely contain the high pressures associated with the Weatherby line of high performance cartridges. It is the flagship rifle of the Weatherby line of firearms.

The Weatherby Mark V rifles are considered prestigious or luxury firearms by many. This is due in part to Roy Weatherby who presented the rifles to royalty, politicians, gun writers and actors including Prince Abdorreza Pahlavi of Iran, Generals James Doolittle (USAF) and Chuck Yeager (USAF), Jack O'Connor, Warren Page, Elgin Gates and Lorne Greene and was able to use this fact as a marketing tool.

Contents

Early development[edit]

Ever since Roy Weatherby began manufacturing rifles he had to rely on a third party to provide the actions for his rifles. Beginning in 1949 Weatherby began building his rifles around the FN Belgian Mauser action. In 1955 Schultz & Larson actions were added to the mix while adding the Mathieu left handed action to his rifle action line up. With the addition of the large capacity .378 Weatherby Magnum a new action type was warranted so the Brevex Magnum Mauser action was added. A little later the FN Sako Mauser actions were added to action types used by Weatherby to build his rifles.[3]

Roy Weatherby had been disappointed by the length of time that was taken discussing and negotiating before coming to an agreement with his European manufacturing partners. With five European companies supplying actions, the frequent trips made to Europe left him little time to run the day-to-day business operations in South Gate, California.[4]

Roy Weatherby had found the Mauser-type wanting due to the case head not being completely enclosed and supported within the breech. While these action types could easily withstand a high pressure of about 70,000 C.U.P, he felt that one which would have the capability of handling 200,000 C.U.P. would fare better with the Weatherby line of cartridges. He had been aware that many handloaders were overloading their cartridges seeking higher performance, which was resulting in blown primers and ruptured case heads. This in turn would lead to hot gases making their way through the bolt and into the shooter's face and eyes and causing injuries to his customers.[3]

Weatherby's requirements included a bolt face which was countersunk into the bolt which would enclose the cartridge's case head while the bolt head was enclosed in a counterbored barrel breach, which in turn would prevent the case head from rupturing. If a rupture should occur, the bolt would have holes through which hot gases could be vented safely towards the side and away from the shooter's face. Further as an extra safety measure he required an enclosed or shrouded bolt sleeve that would prevent the hot gases from making their way through the bolt mechanism to the shooter's face. To Weatherby, the safety and strength of the design were paramount.[4]

The Weatherby Mark V action uses an interrupted screw breech as used on many artillery pieces. The nine lugs are actually sections of a screw thread. The bolt cams forward slightly as the bolt is closed following the pitch angle of the screw thread. Weatherby designed the action type with nine locking lugs arranged in three rows. It was determined early on that these lugs would not protrude outside the bolt but would be of the same diameter as the bolt body itself. Such a design would be conducive to a smooth fluid movement of the bolt through its feeding and extraction cycles.[3]

In spring 1955 Weatherby demonstrated his new action at the annual NRA meetings in Washington, D.C. The action type was shown to Burt Munhall of H.P. White Ballistics Laboratory and to General Julian Hatcher to elicit their opinion of the design. Both were impressed with the design and encouraged Weatherby to commercialize the action as soon as possible. At this time Weatherby had been looking for someone to provide the technical design, drawings and specifications for the design of his new action. General Hatcher suggested that John Garand (of the M-1 Garand rifle fame) would be suitable for the job. However, when contacted Garand expressed disinterest in the project as he was enjoying his retirement.[3]

Walter Howe, the editor of the American Rifleman magazine suggested the Mathewson Tool Company of New Haven which had worked with Winchester, Remington, and the U.S. government designing and building prototypes. While Dave Mathewson managed to build and deliver the design details, the prototype did not include all the features which Weatherby had required, while taking longer than anticipated to provide the prototype design.[4]

It was not until 1957 that the first prototype rifle was built. This was the fifth design model of the rifle as four previous designs had been abandoned. The rifle was shown to Elgin Gates who suggested that the rifle be named the Mark V. This fifth prototype was designed and built with the assistance of Fred Jennie, an engineer hired by Roy Weatherby. It was more streamlined and had a more simplified trigger and safety which would lead to lower manufacturing and tooling costs.[4]

In 1956 Weatherby visited Europe in an attempt to find a supplier for the Mark V action. Steyr-Daimler-Puch, which had been manufacturing the Mannlicher rifle, was eager to work with Weatherby, but the high cost of the initial tooling charges of $200,000 was found to have been too excessive. Schultz & Larsen, which had been building the .378 Weatherby Magnum, was also contacted, but due to an anticipated rise in labor costs Weatherby had to keep looking elsewhere. When Sako of Finland, which was working on the FN Mauser action for Weatherby rifles was approached, it indicated that it had a backlog of production yet to complete and that such a project would have to wait for a year and a half. Also, labor costs in Finland had been rising, which would increase the price per unit cutting into profits. The Birmingham Small Arms Company Limited (BSA) of Birmingham was extremely receptive to the idea of building the action and even attempted to absorb the initial tooling costs. However, it was unable to manufacture the action with the nine locking lugs.[3]

While several companies bid on the contract, Weatherby settled on Precision Foundry Inc. (PFI) of Leandro, California in 1957. It was decided that all major parts would use the investment casting process. Another firm, Gardner Machine Co. of Hollywood, California, would finish all these parts to their final dimensions and Picco Industries of Sierra Madre, California would manufacture the magazine floorplate catch, the trigger sear, and the thumb safety. All the parts thus manufactured would be delivered to Weatherby's South Gate facility where the final polishing, bluing, and assembly would take place. The barrel and stocks were made in-house by Weatherby at the company's South Gate facility.[4]

Due to the investment casting process and issues with porosity of metal, PFI manufactured actions did not easily accept the high-luster bluing process which was a trademark of Weatherby rifles, which resulted in high rejection rates of over 50%. Furthermore, the delivery of component parts by PFI had been irregular, which led to a backlog of orders.[4]

In 1957 Weatherby went back to Europe to visit J.P. Sauer & Sohn, which was at the time primarily a shotgun manufacturer. Udo van Meeteren wanted not only to manufacture the action but also the complete rifle as well. Within two months of the visit a contract with J.P. Sauer & Sohn was signed. In 1958 Fred Jennie visited the Sauer plant in Eckernförde, Germany to help with the setup process. At this time it was decided that receiver and bolt would be made from forgings instead of the investment casting process as Sauer was more familiar with the process. Rifle barrels would be hammer-forged by Sauer, which promoted greater uniformity from breech to muzzle and which in turn led to greater accuracy and longer barrel life. By employing this method of hammer-forging barrels, Weatherby became the first U.S. company to offer hammer-forged barrels in the United States.[3]

In 1970 Weatherby moved production to the Howa factory in Japan. The move was a result of increased costs of production in Europe; Howa was able to make the rifles and at a greater cost savings. The strength of the actions was never compromised—to many, fit and finish are superior to German models and compete well with U.S. models. Howa manufactured Mark Vs until production was brought to the United States in 1994.[5]

Proof testing of the Mark V action[edit]

Weatherby had intended that the new action would be the safest and strongest bolt action available. The rifle was marketed as "The World's Strongest Bolt Action". The Mark V action has been tested to be able to contain up to 200,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure).[6]

The testing of the rifle was conducted on a production rifle chambered for the .300 Weatherby Magnum. Before testing was to be conducted, very thorough measurements of the rifle were taken so as to provide a benchmark for the testing which was to be undertaken.[7]

The first test was conducted using a 180 gr (12 g) bullet propelled by 82 gr (5.3 g) of Du Pont #4350 powder. This load provided 65,000 psi (4,500 bar) of pressure. This load did not show any pressure or extraction issues with the new Mark V action but caused a slight sticking of the cartridge case in the Mauser style rifle design. Subsequent testing was performed using the same 180 gr (12 g) bullet and using a powder charge of Du Pont #4350 which increased by increments of 2 gr (0.13 g) for each test thereafter.[4]

The second testing which was conducted with the 84 gr (5.4 g) showed no signs of pressure nor issues with extraction even though the measured pressure was close to 75,000 psi (5,200 bar). Firing this load in the Mauser rifle led to a blown primer and extreme difficulty was experienced in extracting the spent case.[4]

Using 86 gr (5.6 g) of Du Pont #4350 the cartridge began to show signs of pressure in the Mark V action. However, the case did not stick and extraction was performed easily. Breech pressure was found to be between 85,000–95,000 psi (5,900–6,600 bar). Measurements of the spent case showed that the case had stretched at the belt a mere .0005 in (0.013 mm).[4]

The spent case from the 88 gr (5.7 g) test led to a slightly sticking case, which in turn led to a slight difficulty in opening of the bolt. Measurements from the case belt showed that the belt had expanded from .533 in (13.5 mm) to .535 in (13.6 mm). The pressure generated by this load was 100,000 psi (6,900 bar).

The fifth test was conducted used a load of 90 gr (5.8 g) of Du Pont 4350. Firing this load led to some difficulty in opening the bolt, and the case was extracted when opened. The belt of the case still measured .535 in (13.6 mm). A difference in the diameter between the bolt head and the diameter of the barrel of .002 in (0.051 mm) per side was noted. No bulging of the bolt, receiver or the barrel was noted. Headspace was measured to be the same as prior to the testing.[4]

Further testing was conducted with a 180 gr (12 g) bullet lodged into the throat of the barrel. A cartridge loaded with the standard charge of 78 gr (5.1 g) of Du Pont 4350 and a 180 gr (12 g) bullet was fired into the back of the first bullet. It was found that both bullets exited the barrel. The primer had been pierced and the exiting gas entered into the bolt and hit the firing pin sleeve, which was loosened slightly. The bolt was opened by hand but the cartridge stayed stuck in the chamber. When the case was tapped out, it was found to be in good condition except for its pierced primer. It was found that the barrel, just in front of the receiver ring, had expanded from 1.147 in (29.1 mm) to 1.1496 in (29.20 mm). The diameter of the bolt head had expanded from .7178 in (18.23 mm) to .7190 in (18.26 mm). The head space had increased from .2163 in (5.49 mm) to .2174 in (5.52 mm). All other dimensions had stayed constant. This test was conducted 15 times. A test was conducted with a 220 gr (14 g) bullet lodged into the bore of the rifle and a 180 gr (12 g) grain bullet was fired into the back of this bullet. The result of this test found that the cartridge case head had expanded to .545 in (13.8 mm). After these additional 15 tests it was found that the head space was set back only a mere .001 in (0.025 mm).[4]

Action variants[edit]

The Weatherby Mark V action has remained virtually unchanged from the original design of Fred Jennie and Roy Weatherby which is a testament to the longevity of the design. Nevertheless, some refinement to the design has occurred over time. The Mark V action is a front locking, push feed, bolt action repeater. The lug arrangement allows for 54° bolt lift. This shorter bolt lift allows for increased clearance between the bolt handle and any accessories such as scopes that may be mounted on the rifle and arguably provides for faster cycling of the action. This compares favorably with the Mauser style rifles which have a 90° bolt lift.

The bolt body, including the handle is made of a single piece of machined steel. To remove any play and reduce any chance of the bolt binding during the cycling of the action, the bolt head is smaller with the locking lugs being the same diameter as the body itself. The bolt has three gas vents along the bolt body which will allow for the venting of hot gases should the case not seal the chamber or if a pierced primer should occur. Shortly after production began in Germany, the bolt body was fluted to provide further positive feeding and extraction of the cartridges.

9 Lug/Magnum[edit]

The 9 Lug/Magnum action was the original design which went into production and was also the design which was subject to the strength testing conducted by Weatherby. The original 9 Lug design lacked the bolt fluting and featured a safety mounted on the receiver. These rifles were made by PFI and J.P. Sauer & Sohn in the early 1960s. The refinements to the original design included a fluted bolt and a redesigned safety allowing for smoother feeding and extraction and a safer design. The 9 Lug action is considered the archetypal Mark V action. The 9 Lug design features a bolt head with nine locking lugs arranged in three rows with each row having three locking lugs. The Magnum Mark V bolt is the heaviest bolt available in a commercially produced rifle.

The 9 Lug Mark V action is currently available in rifles chambered for Weatherby calibers. However, late production Sauer and very early Howa manufactured Mark V rifles in .30-06 Springfield and .270 Winchester were chambered in the 9 Lug Mark V actions. As the production run of these rifles was short such rifles are a rarity and considered collectibles.

Varmintmaster[edit]

In 1963 Weatherby introduced a scaled down version of the 9 Lug design which was made specifically for chambering smaller varmint cartridges. The Varmintmaster was introduced together with the .224 Weatherby Magnum cartridge. The Varmintmaster was also chambered in the .22-250 Remington.

This action featured six lugs arranged in two rows. The 9 Lug design was found to be too large and too long for use with varmint cartridges and this new action addressed this issue. The action features a shorter one piece bolt of a smaller diameter than the 6 Lug/Standard design. The Varmintmaster action was later used in the Weatherby Mark V Silhouette handgun as well.

6 Lug/Standard[edit]

The 6 Lug design has been only available in non-Weatherby cartridges and was offered beginning with the .30-06 Springfield and the .270 Winchester cartridges. Like the Varmintmaster (which predates the 6 Lug/Standard action design) it features six locking lugs arranged in two rows. The bolt is shorter and is considerably lighter than the 9 Lug/Magnum design. Coupled with a narrower receiver, the Standard Mark V action is better suited to most cartridges.

This action type is also used by the Weatherby CFP (Center-fire Pistol) as it provided a greater flexibility as to which cartridges could be chambered. The Standard Mark V action was also used in the Super Varmintmaster rifle rather than the original Varmintmaster action due to cost and production constraints. The Standard Mark V action is only available in rifles chambered for non-Weatherby cartridges.

References

 
Well there is alot of information there for sure, but at least some of it is wrong.
First off Chronisters 10 shot group didnt have a flyer, and if you check it was about 3 3/4" in total.
His record lasted about one year till it was beaten by a shooter by name of Frye. Then that record was beaten again in about another year by Frank Weber. That record fell also in about a year to a very large block gun in Va. That record was broken by John Voniada and he held it for 14 years.
Earls record was the only one ever held with the 30x378. and it was shot using a 250 gr SMK which was produced for a brief period and prior to the 240 gr.
I frankly didnt realize Weatherby produced the Mark V that early, which makes me wonder all the more why they waited so long to make the 30x378 a factory chambering.
 
Last edited:
762x51 said:
oh and your thread got me thinking about the voyager 1 space probe for some reason. i think i read somewhere that it was the fastest man made object. i think it's going 10 miles a second if i remember right. someone correct me if i'm wrong.
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It is the fastest man made object. It's out there like past Pluto and still going in my life since I was born in 1977. She is on her way to the kyper belt at 35,000 mph as we speak at 156.2 AU (Astronomical Units the distance from the sun to earth) 14.2 billion miles. In 11th grade in 94 Galileo was getting pictures of shoemaker levy9 smashing Jupiter and leaving impact scars in the atmosphere the size of earth now that's some external ballistics. I would think that Rods from God is the fastest projectiles we have made yet if it is a real weapon.
 
As for Fords my last Ford truck got three hundred and nine thousand miles before excessive clearance on crankshaft bearings.
When we buy and shoot a firearm only a few on this forum have the engineering knowledge to know how much math it takes to get where we are now!
On you tube there is a video of a 1000 yard shot with a 308 on an Afgahn snipper.A bunch more math!
 

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