In's and out's of selling primers, ammo, and brass

[cohunt]

Ok-- I want to hear from the guys with legitimate business licenses for selling primers, ammo, and brass.

My wife and I have a family friend that says he just pulled a business license for an llc to sell primers, ammo, and brass here in CO.

He is trying to get my wife to do the sales for this new business adventure---we have not sat down with him to get all the details yet so help me learn.

He claims he has a friend with an import license and wholesale "hook ups" to buy all 3 of these things at wholesale prices...he says he just ordered 20000 rounds of ammo. And is getting info on the brass and primers.

We are not sure how he plans to sell yet ( business store front, gun shows, " back of car/word of mouth" etc. )

What are some things to be concerned with for Colorado or federal laws?

I know about the hazmat certification needed to ship primers, but I'm not sure he is looking for anything other than local sales. Are there other laws concerning sales of loaded ammo and primers at a local face to face level? I'm pretty sure there is the issue of "age" and " known criminal record" when selling ammo....what else?

I'm afraid our friend is jumping in head first without doing due diligence so I want to know what questions to ask him to keep my wife/myself out of any legal issues that might arise.

Is there a legal obligation for some special liability insurance? Are there special licenses needed to be obtained before selling ammo or primers?

Help me out, school me. I'm ready to learn.

 

[Baker Alvin]

Here in PA, talk to your local Municipality, to get an address, check local zoning laws, hire an attorney for getting or filling for a business name,
an accountant for EIN and state sales tax license, use Quick Books for record keeping, Scan all receipts with bill payments and credit card receipts. Have a business agreement with whoever our are working with, , also including who is responsible for which daily tasks.
Have a written plan for dissolving if things go belly up, with who ever you are working with.
Do not stop your main source of income, keep from borrowing money, let it grow/feed itself, do not draw out for personal use, as you need cash to buy in, keep inventory, make up for dead stock, and other ongoing expenses.
Learn to crawl, walk, jog and then run.
I do not know anything about FFL requirements.
I wish you the best, many years of success, be ready for six years of tough sledding, long hours, short nights and a lot of grit.
We started from scratch in 1983.

 

[cohunt]

I'm not starting the business , a friend is. He is offering my wife a job in sales and record keeping. We are not investing in his company in any way--- he has already supposedly obtained a business license/llc

I'm wanting to make sure everything is legit and poses no legal implications for us if my wife were to take the offered position.

We will meet with him to get further details before we make a decision and I was hoping to have more knowledge and a list of questions to ask him to make sure this is all on the legal "up and up"

My wife currently works for him in billing, record keeping, payroll for his HVAC company, but he is selling it and getting out of that line of work.

 

[shortgrass]

When well established business can't get primers and brass on a regular basis,... and ammo is becoming more available every day from 'regular' sources....... Well,,,, good luck, is all I can say!

 

[cohunt]

When well established business can't get primers and brass on a regular basis,... and ammo is becoming more available every day from 'regular' sources....... Well,,,, good luck, is all I

I'm sure he can get them-- but at what cost and what profit margin.
I won't pay crazy overinflated prices for primers-- but we all know other people will---- but for how long?

I'm more concerned with the legalities and liabilities of the ordeal than with supply chains or prices ( I'm not the one with cash invested)

He is retired (22 years) army special forces, disabled vet, his wife is a contractor computer programmer In the defense sector, he's selling his established HVAC business--- he has plenty of investment capital and for the past 2 years has compensated my wife for her work more than fairly at his hvac company --- I have no doubts that he will continue to compensate her well--- as I said, I'm mostly concerned about legality and liability as I kind of feel he may be getting over-excited and over optimistic about this and may not have researched the legality and liability parts of the business well.
As far as ammo inventory goes--- there are several local people doing the same thing -- they are selling imported goods at the over-inflated US prices that crazy people are still buying. I wouldn't pay their prices nor shoot the steel cased ammo they are selling.

Now when it comes to primers and brass-- I'm intetested to hear where and how much he can get and what mark up he will sell them for--- he claims his retired vet friend is not only a licensed importer but gets "lower than distributor pricing" on bulk supplies.

So what I'm really looking for here is insider info on the legalities and liabilities of being involved in this business from people who are actually importing and or selling ammo and primers . My wife (if we decide to accept the job) will be doing record keeping, sales, book keeping, possibly placing the orders with the supplier as well....I know he wants to try sales at the local gun shows ( so she would be working those too)-- we have not gotten details on what other ways he plans to sell his goods ( word of mouth/friends, possibly a web page for local sales, maybe some sort of rented local store front location)
The details are still very vague (which is why I'm concerned)

 

[epags]

FWIW. Some States (California for example) prohibit a direct mail order sale of loaded ammo to individuals. It must be shipped to a FFL who then must fill out State of California BS paperwork before handing the ammo to the person who ordered it. Your friend can probably just look at the disclaimers on reputable on-line retailers for the info.

 

[cohunt]

FWIW. Some States (California for example) prohibit a direct mail order sale of loaded ammo to individuals. It must be shipped to a FFL who then must fill out State of California BS paperwork before handing the ammo to the person who ordered it. Your friend can probably just look at the disclaimers on reputable on-line retailers for the info.

Thanks, at this point I think he just wants to do local sales

 

[shortgrass]

1. https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export 2. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/import-firearms-ammunition-and-defense-articles 3. I have held a FFL for over 24yrs. So I really don't know much.

 

[cohunt]

1. https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export 2. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/import-firearms-ammunition-and-defense-articles 3. I have held a FFL for over 24yrs. So I really don't know much.

Those are for importing though, right?
Initially he will be buying from another importer...he may look into an importers license down the road but not in the beginning.


So are there any special licenses or insurance needed to justsell ammo or primers locally in colorado?

 

[GrayCreed]

Ok-- I want to hear from the guys with legitimate business licenses for selling primers, ammo, and brass.

My wife and I have a family friend that says he just pulled a business license for an llc to sell primers, ammo, and brass here in CO.

He is trying to get my wife to do the sales for this new business adventure---we have not sat down with him to get all the details yet so help me learn.

He claims he has a friend with an import license and wholesale "hook ups" to buy all 3 of these things at wholesale prices...he says he just ordered 20000 rounds of ammo. And is getting info on the brass and primers.

We are not sure how he plans to sell yet ( business store front, gun shows, " back of car/word of mouth" etc. )

What are some things to be concerned with for Colorado or federal laws?

I know about the hazmat certification needed to ship primers, but I'm not sure he is looking for anything other than local sales. Are there other laws concerning sales of loaded ammo and primers at a local face to face level? I'm pretty sure there is the issue of "age" and " known criminal record" when selling ammo....what else?

I'm afraid our friend is jumping in head first without doing due diligence so I want to know what questions to ask him to keep my wife/myself out of any legal issues that might arise.

Is there a legal obligation for some special liability insurance? Are there special licenses needed to be obtained before selling ammo or primers?

Help me out, school me. I'm ready to learn.

If I were you I'd go talk to the good people at Shootin Den on Filmore Street. They have a very realistic outlook and are not snobby about talking to other people who own/want to own business.

 

[shortgrass]

Those are for importing though, right?
I Italy he will be buying from another importer...he may look into an importers license down the road but not in the beginning.


So are there any special licenses or insurance needed to justsell ammo or primers locally in colorado?

You should be asking the State of Colorado! You should , also, be asking the cities/counties that he is planning on selling in.

 

[Muddyboots]

1 - speak to attorney that specializes to LLC and protection of personal assets and personal civil liability. The liability line can be grayer than most realize. For example, any business conducted from your home "may" place your home at risk, so important to discuss all potential conduct with legal.

2 - shipping requires specific documented training in some cases so better to pay 3rd party to provide for clear well documented paper trail.

3 - shipping insurance for HAZMAT might be an eye opener. This will require documented DOT HAZMAT training for EVERY person that handles the hazmat in shipping process. Its not like one person has the training and someone else packs it for shipment.

4 - suggest perusing ATF website;

Conduct of Business | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Answers to some common questions about firearms licensing requirements, procedures for federal firearms licensee forms and filings, ammunition sales and the shipping of firearms.

www.atf.gov

5 - SAAMI has lot of good info

Home - SAAMI

saami.org

6 - US Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration
HAZMAT training requirements:

Hazardous Materials Outreach & Engagement | PHMSA

www.phmsa.dot.gov

7 - ATF - Colorado

https://www.atf.gov/file/117171/download

Just some thoughts to review.

 

[cohunt]

So it appears from some links above that there are no special licenses needed to sell ammunition, just import it...what about primers? ( other than the hazmat shipping requirements) does anyone have any info on that?

I'll go see the guys at shooting den too when I'm not busy at work and see what info they can help me with.

 

[brassguy]

If you are working with HAZMAT, (shipping, storing, or handling) there are federal requirements for training. These requirements are mandated by both OSHA and PHMSA (DOT). Additionally, you need to ensure your insurance covers HAZMAT at your facility, and you need to ensure that there are no local issues with zoning when it comes to HAZMAT. If you want to talk about the training requirements, don't hesitate to contact me at [email protected] with any questions. I run a industrial safety/HAZMAT training company and we can go into the details. The good thing is, all of the training can be conducted online.
Myles