help make my mind up on a 6mm project

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by oldfamily, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. oldfamily

    oldfamily Well-Known Member

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    Need help have been getting parts for a new project. Rifle is a Rem 700 bdl long action, boyd's thumbhole stock, Lilja barrel, ect. This rifle will be a coyote rig set up for realisticly 600 to 700 yard shots. Need help on deciding on a 243 AI or the 6mm Rem AI. Planning on having it rechambered when it has the throat shot out to a 6mm/06 down the road. Just can not make my ming up on the 243 or 6mm rem to start with. Barrel will be a #6 30 in lilja and can not make up my mind for the twist. WHat would you all make up??????? I hate making my mind up. Oldfamily
     

  2. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    I went with 243 AI because I had 500 243 cases. I also went with 1:8 twist. I got some feedback about using 7 1/4 twist if you were only going to shoot the heaviest VLD type bullets.

    The 8 twist is good for maybe down to 85-90 grains for your closer in varminting.

    It's a very good PDog gun.
     

  3. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    Old,
    Go for the 243 Ackley, i have one built on a 700 short action with a 26", 8 contour Pac-Nor barrel.
    I have a 1-8 twist which shoots 105grn Scenars extremely accurately, although i mainly use 90grn Scenars at about 3400fps. Lapua brass is another factor in choosing the 243 over the 6mmRem.
    Had there been quality brass available for the 6mmRem then i would have chosen the Ackley version of that cartridge.

    Ian
     
  4. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Keep one thing in mind, while the 1-8 twist would be correct for a 243 with the heavy VLD bullets, when the time comes and you rechamber it to the 6-06, you would tear apart most 105 to 107 gr bullets with the 1-8 twist!!

    For the large 6-06, a 1-9 is vastly superior for use with bullets such as the 105 gr Berger, 105 gr A-Max and 107 gr SMK.

    My question to you is why wait to chamber it in 6-06? That is additional cost of dies and brass and such. Add all that in and there would be little difference in just setting the barrel back 1" and rechambering when the time comes. Basically what you would be doing with your original idea price wise.

    I would also say that the "6 contour at 30" is not an overly heavy barrel. If you want this weight range of barrel I would strongly look at the #7 contour and have Dan flute it with its heavy 50 BMG style flutes. This will produce a finished barrel weight a hair less then what a non fluted #6 would weigh but with the vast improvement in barrel rigidity.

    The 6mm rounds are not overly stressful on barrels but why not get a stiffer barrel if you can for the same weight?

    Just my opinion.

    If you go with a 30" pipe, I would not mess with the 243 or 6mm AI, go straight to the 6-06, buy one set of dies and set that barrel back a couple times when needed and life will be good.

    Order a 1-9 twist 6 groove barrel, no 3 grooves, thin jacketed heavy 6mm bullets DO NOT like 3 groove barrels at anything over 3200 fps in most cases and you would have far more gun than that.

    A 1-9, 6 groove would perform very well offering you full performance with bullets such as the Berger and Hornady.

    Just my opinion,

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  5. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Kirby , if your gonna end up with a 6-06 why not start with one , order your barrel with a little bit of a longer shank and you could set it back for years.
    Another option would be the 6.5-06 , I've heard of some guys going this rout so they can shoot the high BC 140 class bullet and they say that the 95gr V-max is simply awsome out to 600yds as far as splat factor.

    But I'll say I have a soft spot in my heart for the 243Ai , unless your looking for absolute max destruction I honestly don't think you'll see a differance between that and 6-06 at 600yds , and you'll get longer barrel life and the ability to seat the realy heavy VLD bullet way out in a long action giving good case life.
     
  6. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    JDJones,

    Remember he is using a Rem 700 Long Action. These will accept an OAL of 3.700" in most cases. Figuring that the 6-06 case is roughly 2.495" in length that would leave 1.2" of bullet length hanging out the front of the bullet. I do not thing he would have any trouble seating any 6mm bullet out as far as he wanted in a 6-06 in the Rem 700 Long Action.

    Your 6.5-06 is also a great recommendation as well. Another great one which I like even more then the 6.5-06 is the 25-06 loaded in a fast twist barrel with the Wildcat 142 gr ULD RBBT. Will do anything the 6.5mm 140s will do but with a bit higher BC and SD.

    Limited list of bullets to use though in 25 cal.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  7. wildcat

    wildcat Well-Known Member

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    Old,
    I was trying to make the same decision between the 243 AI and 6mm AI. Well, I decided on the 6-284. I will get much more velocity with 6-284. Plus, you can use excellent brass and you don't have to due too much case prep except neck down a 6.5x284 case to 6-284. I will be using a Krieger 30" 1-12 twist, I will be using 75grn V-MAX and 87grn V-MAX bullets. This rifle will be mainly used for 500 to 800 yard varmint hunting. With this chambering, I will be able to get around 3850 t0 4000 fps with a 75grn V-MAX and around 3700 to 3850fps with 87grn V-MAX. I like using the poly tiped bullets when hunting varmint, the explosion is an awesome thing to see. Others like to use the larger 6mm bullets such as the 107 Matchking and 105 A-MAX's. Those bullets have better BC, but they don't compare to the Ballistic tip or V-MAX bullets when it comes to the "mist factor" The 87grn V-MAX has a BC of .400, pretty darn good for a poly tipped bullet, I will most likely end up using that bullet in this rifle. As I mentioned before, I should be able to push the 87grn V-MAX at around 3850 fps. This is going to be a devistating varmint rig. If I were you, I would go with 6-284 over all the other 6mm choices you have mentioned. The 6-284 is a better round than the 243 AI and 6MM AI, you well get much more velocity. The 6-284 and 6-06 are similar velocity wise, however, the 6-284 is easier to prep and you can use better brass with 6-284. Here are the specs on my current project;
    1. Chambering, 6-284
    2. Nesika Bay Model K, 1.450 DIA action
    3. Krieger 30" 1.250 tappered to 1.00 at muzzle, 1-12, throated for 75grn to 90grn bullets
    4. McMillan A-5, adj LOP and thumbwheel cheek piece
    5. Vias Muzzle brake
    6. Jewell 2oz trigger
    7. Davidson base with 20 MOA added
    8. Kelby rings
    9. Nightforce 5.5x22x56mm NXS
    10. Teflon coated all Matte Black

    I am still waiting for the parts, they should be here soon. It's already been 4 months from the time I ordered everything. Once I receive the parts, I will pick the gunsmith for the project.

    Good luck with your choice and let us know what you decide.

    Wildcat
     
  8. oldfamily

    oldfamily Well-Known Member

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    one question Lapua has 30-06 brass, a person could run these through a 25-06 full length die then progress to the 6mm-06. Or would it be better to stay with the 25-06 brass. I thought of a 25-06 just that I already have the 257 stw to play with, Kirby I sent you an email about this project, Thanks
     
  9. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

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    oldfamily,
    If you are just going to be shooting to around 600yds or so why choose a straight 6mm-06, if you go with a 6mmRemington you will at least double if not triple barrel life. I have a 6mm Ackley Imp. and have just shot the second barrel out of my 6-284, in my opinion you dont want or need anything with this much case capacity unless you shoot past 1000yds on a regular basis,dont plan on shooting it much or if it does not matter if you have to re-barrel it every year. if you need something exotic make your 6 Rem. brass out of Norma 7x57.
    UB
     
  10. oldfamily

    oldfamily Well-Known Member

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    made my mind up my 6mm project turned to a 30 in 257 stw project. I would say that would have one heck of a splat factor on a coyote. Plus every one needs two stw's. Thanks Kirby
     
  11. dimecovers3

    dimecovers3 Well-Known Member

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    UncleB,Regarding your 6-284 I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. How many shots did you get from those two tubes? What twist and bullets did you use? What was the average working velocity? How many groves were they? Would you recommend the 6-284 for an eastern woodchuck, yote/deer rifle to be shot maybe 50 times per year in hunting? Shots would be 300 yards or less? Yes, it is way more than needed and standard .243 would cover such, but why not?
     
  12. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

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    dc3,
    I have 700 rounds through the barrel that is on it now, I am planning on having it set back 2-3" very soon. it is a 30" 1-8" twist Pac-Nor 3groove that I shoot 107gr SMK's in.
    It shoots 3400fps with the load I am using now. This gun is very accurate as I have shot rockchucks out to 1515yds with it, but it is very tempermental, the 107gr SMK is the ONLY bullet it will shoot, 105 A-Max's dont make it to the muzzle in one piece at any velocity, Berger 105 VLD's blow-up at 3100fps. this is in large part due to the 3 groove barrel ( I have several 3 groove barrels in different calibers and will NEVER own another).
    If you want to make a 6-284 Woodchuck,yote/deer rifle and can accept 600-700rd barrel life it is an awesome choice as long as you have at minimum 26" barrel (preferrably longer) and use a 1-8"to 1-9" twist (non 3 groove)barrel for heavier bullets.
    good luck UB
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    I agree 100% with Uncle B on this one. I have changed to using only 1-9, 6 groove barrels for every 6-284 built to shoot the heavy bullets. This twist will offer 3400 fps with bullets such as the Berger and A-Max and of course also shoots the 107 gr SMK very well also.

    If you want a fast twist 6-284 go with a 1-9, 6 groove. The canted 5 grooves may also work very well from Broughton and Rock but I have not tested them yet to be able to tell you for sure.

    Kirby Allen(50)