Help - bullet runout

[Mc Fraser]

Hello,
I have a Lee Breech Lock Classic Cast and Lee dies for my 270 win and 300wm. On my 270 i use Nosler brass, 140gr Sierra SBT Gameking.
Somehow I get 5-10 thou bullet runout and I cant seem to figure why. I measured the fired brass with a Sinclair concentricity gauge - very minimal runout, then i neck size it and measure again 1-2 thou run out, after seating the bullet 5-10 thou close to bullet tip. All this with Lee dies, then i went and bought series a redding dies and got the same result.
The only item that i can think of that could induce runout is the press, and im planning to use a friend rcbs to check that theory.
Anything else that you might think of that might cause that much runout?
On another note i think im disappointed with redding dies, i got the same results the only diff that i can see between lee and redding is the price.

 

[Mikecr]

Fired brass has little to no runout,, that's right.
Neck sized brass has 1-2thou,, that's right if pulling an expander.
5-10thou close to bullet tip is a different measure all together.

That would put the indicator on a sharply curved surface. So if there is any kind of forward/rearward movement during this measure (not just rotational), runout will jump wildly. Could be caused by a case head out of square due to closed bolt lugs out of solid contact with action abutments.

 

[Deputy819]

5-10 thou close to bullet tip.

Yep, for consistency I think you would need to measure below the ogive on the bullet.

 

[KyCarl]

Check 2 places it can be concentric but not straight..Checking just outside the case and right at the tip. Is your shell holder square to your seating die?

 

[BallisticsGuy]

I think you're expecting a lot too much from a lot too little.

 

[sedancowboy]

An old trick is to rotate the cartridge as you seat the bullet. Just start the bullet then raise the handle a little and rotate the cartridge 180 and finish seating. Also does the seating stem fit the profile of the bullet perfectly? Check run out right in front of the case mouth. Like others have said checking on the tip has the highest chance for variance.

 

[Alibiiv]

Hello,
I have a Lee Breech Lock Classic Cast and Lee dies for my 270 win and 300wm. On my 270 i use Nosler brass, 140gr Sierra SBT Gameking.
Somehow I get 5-10 thou bullet runout and I cant seem to figure why. I measured the fired brass with a Sinclair concentricity gauge - very minimal runout, then i neck size it and measure again 1-2 thou run out, after seating the bullet 5-10 thou close to bullet tip. All this with Lee dies, then i went and bought series a redding dies and got the same result.
The only item that i can think of that could induce runout is the press, and im planning to use a friend rcbs to check that theory.
Anything else that you might think of that might cause that much runout?
On another note i think im disappointed with redding dies, i got the same results the only diff that i can see between lee and redding is the price.

I don't have any experience with any Lee products at all because I do not consider their products to be of the best quality. "Maybe" .003-.005 thousandths, buy .010 thousandths there has to be something wrong with one of the tools that you are using to reload your ammunition. I'd be checking the press, the dies and also the tool/method being used to measure the concentricity. The .270 has quite a long neck, getting a bullet to seat improperly in that neck is going to take some effort. I think that using your friend's press is a good place to start, borrowing another set of .270 Win dies ought to help too. sedancowboy also provided you with a good recommendation. Please give us some updates.

 

[ShtrRdy]

On the Redding seater die - did you get the Competition model? The one with the chamber bullet seating insert?

 

[Remmy700]

It's obvious by your numbers u have identified the area where u are inducing run out. With the neck length of the 270 I would most definelty run a seater with alignment sleeve. Also how consistent does seating bullet feel from case to case? Forster BR seaters, Redding comp seater etc. I also have never messed with Lee stuff so I don't know anything about the quality of the press but I would think if u are not getting those run out numbers after neck sizing like u do after seating that your press may be contributing a little to the runout numbers but I don't think it's the culprit.

 

[Remmy700]

I am pretty sure I got a 270 Forster BR seater. I will check when I get home and if I do I will send it to u to try to see if that makes any difference.

 

[4SFED]

Just because the neck is on center after sizing doesn't mean that it's straight. When expanding the neck, variations in case thickness can cause it to have a small angle ... epecially when using an expander ball. That angle shows up as runout at the tip of the bullet. A bullet seater will not straighten an angled neck, but if the neck is straight, the bullet will seat with minimal runout.

Check a few sized cases. Find a gage pin or another piece of round stock that is a tight slip fit in the case neck, and check the runout of the gage pin at the same distance from the case as a bullet. Mark the high spot, then insert a bullet. I'll bet the runout runout will match that of the gage pin.

 

[Greyfox]

Given your sized neck runout is OK, the culprit has to be one or more the following:
-Misaligned seating dye body
-An incorrect/mismatched seater plug.
—a defective press
-too much seating pressure due to oversizing the neck
-a bad batch of bullets.(I have experienced this!)

 

[Knightvision]

..also make sure your die is very clean where it contacts the bullet. I clean and lube with moly on a q tip. Brass, lead, copper, ss and steel are all sticky to some degree. As sedan cowboy said rotating cartridge and seating in two or even three stages keeps things straight for me. good luck

 

[Frank Kalisz]

I am good with Lee Dies in general except for the seater. Problem was the seating stem didn't fit a typical spitzer rifle bullet (like Hornady Interlock SP) and the stem was pushing against the tip rather than ogive as should be the case. I tried to send a sample bullet to manufacturer Lee for their custom stem service, but what I received still did not fit my bullet like a glove - so I decided that I was done with them. So I purchased a Forster/Bonanza Benchrest Seater from eBay to fix all my problems. The Forster stem fits perfectly as expected and the Forster die design also supports the entire cartridge during seating to assure bullet is straight. I'm thinking a Forster/Bonanza Benchrest Seater, Forster Micrometer Seater, or Redding Micrometer Seater might help you.