Head space issues!!!

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by winmag, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    Woah! I just learned that theres no way in heck I can use my brass (2x loaded) to load for my dad's or cousins rifles. The first time loaded brass works fine on all 3 rifles. After two loads NOT GONNA HAPPEN! So I swiched bolts(NO I DIDNT TRY TO FIRE!) just to check if it was a chamber issue. My bolt pushes re-sized brass easily into both rifles. Dads bolt would not push re-sized brass into my rifle with out ''reefing'' the bolt shut. I learned this today doing load development on dads rifle. So far dads and my rifles shoot sub 3/4 moa with two different loads. RL-19 and 140 Accubonds, and IMR-4831 and 150 SST's. My cousins shoots 1/2 moa with hand loads from another loader who just got married and moved to another state, and just under 1 moa with factory 150 Fed Fusions. I was asked to load for both rifles and seeing as how thier family members I said ok.
    Heres some C.O.A.L. comparisons.
    My Rifle 2.915 (.015 off the lands)
    Cousins Rifle 2.856 (.015 off the lands)
    Dads Rifle 2.840 (.015 off the lands)

    Thats .075 difference from dads to mine and .059 difference from mine to cousins, while dads and cousins are only .016! All three rifles shot sub moa with 62 gr of RL-19 and 140gr Nosler Accubonds. All three are Model 70 Winchesters. Mine and dads are featherweights, Cousins is a Coyote.
    Looks like theyre gonna have to buy thier own brass. Just one more thing, I F/L sized 20 more brass and re-checked. Same issue. So I cranked the dye down just a tic (very small tic) and dimpled the brass.(I only tried 3) still the same issue. Both mine and dads chambers accept brass easily with my bolt pushing it.
    Is there anything else I can try?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  2. Willys46

    Willys46 Well-Known Member

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    Couple questions,

    What kind of reloading press are you using? The reason I ask, my cousin had a lee turret press and it would warp jsut enough to make the cases not chamber. They were way out of round.

    When full lenght sizing how much did you bumb the shoulder back?

    What round are you reloading, I am assuming a belted mag of some kind. If it is, some times you can not resize the web area down by the belt. There is a special die that is made (can not remember who makes it) that reszies all the way to the belt.

    take your indicators and measure the area just infront of the belt. If you have a piece that fits there guns and see where the difference is. It sounds like your chamber may be in the larger size and the die is not resizing it enough.

    that would be my guess.

    Willys46
     

  3. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    What kind of reloading press are you using? The reason I ask, my cousin had a lee turret press and it would warp jsut enough to make the cases not chamber. They were way out of round.

    Hornady Lock-N-Load single stage. Redding dye's. Fed 270wsm (2x loaded) brass. I also spend a huge amount of time with case prep keeping as exacting tollerances as I possibly can. All trimmed to within .001 of eachother.

    When full lenght sizing how much did you bumb the shoulder back?

    As far as I could w/o ''crushing'' the shoulder. Press ram just bumps dye on the stroke. any more and I crush cases. I wouldve necksized if I wasnt loading for 3 rifles. The brass loads like silk in my rifle with MY bolt, and in the other rifle, BUT ONLY with MY bolt. I know its weird, but its gotta be a head space issue. The 270wsm isnt a belted case. So I could head space off the shoulder after fireforming, but I F/L/ sized for a ''fresh start'' to work up loads.
    The brass was all fired in my rifle 2 times pryor. After the first fireing, I could still F/L size, and load for all 3. After second fireing from my rifle and resizing, no way.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2010
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Just buy new brass, and reload each gun's formed as appropriate..
     
  5. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "theres no way in heck I can use my brass (2x loaded) to load for my dad's or cousins rifles. The first time loaded brass works fine on all 3 rifles. After two loads NOT GONNA HAPPEN! "

    Okay, but the difference isn't the throat and rifling OAL, it's the shoulder location in different chambers. You simply aren't sizing the cases back far enough to allow the ammo to be swapped around.

    So, either size them all back to SAAMI or properly size for each one and keep the ammo segregated, that's the best solution.
     
  6. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Well-Known Member

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    No mention of case length? Are you certain the cases aren't due for a trim? I would take 3 of the cases that won't fit now, and trim them back to Hodgdon's listed "trim length," which is usually .010 below max length.
    Then try them again. It doesn't make sense that twice fired cases won't fit due to datum line length if they've been FL resized. Unless you have a bad resizer die that is.
    If the end of the neck is hitting the lip in the chamber they should show a witness mark, so look them over closely.

    It's really not all that uncommon to see significant throat differences in different rifles, and if the empties won't chamber, it's not a throat/leade issue.
     
  7. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Take a new case, never fired and put strips of scotch tape on the back, trimming the edges of and see how many pieces it takes till your bolt gets tight. New brass has roughly .002 head space in a rifle that is set to zero head space on a 270WSM go gauge. You can measure the length of the brass as you add tape to get an idea of what your head space is and the difference between the three.
    I just went thought a head spacing thing on my rifle, fortunately it's a Savage and I just reset it my self.
    If your dimpling, do you have lube up on it. When I was having to crush mine down if I had any lube on the shoulder it would dimple so I lube the body and dry lubed the neck.
    If your running max load and your moving that kinda brass really watch the case web thickness cause it will fail after .010 of thinning.
    It's kinda funny but after I reset my head spacing to .002 on a go gauge I then set my die (Redding) to the gauge ,I then had to turn it in just a touch for spring back and the die is set to where the shell holder and the die meet and the handle just cams over and I just bump the shoulder and my rounds chamber like butter, kinda like it was planned that way!
     
  8. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    buy 2 more die sets and mark and use them for each specific gun. cheapest and easiest way to do it and be certain it is right.

    BH
     
  9. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    BignGreen's example/results are normal.
    You are trying to use YOUR brass(not SAAMI) in multiple guns.
    Contrary to lore, FL sizing may not take fired brass to SAAMI unless it is customized to account for the 'new cartridge' it becomes on fire-forming.

    Don't be cheap. By new brass, and atleast body dies for each chamber you're reloading for.
     
  10. winmag

    winmag Well-Known Member

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    New dyes and 2 new bags of brass is looking like the best solution. I figured this was gonna be the case. thanks