Hammer bullet for short range bear hunting

[Calvin45]

Good Lord! The hunt was successful and long over and folks are still bickering on this thread???!!! Count me in!!!!

Hearing what quite frankly is a lot of opinionated borderline nonsense about how target bullets aren't okay for hunting or about how copper bullets are better or worse or anything in between…

How the hell did people ever manage to kill anything with round lead balls and blackpowder? Let alone bows and arrows?

I'm glad we've had so much improvement and fully support the eternal pursuit of a better mousetrap. But as I said waaaaay earlier in this dumpster fire…

Oh for crying out loud people we're talking a Saskatchewan black bear, not a polar bear or an alaska/Yukon monster grizz or Kodiak.

People kill them with 30-30s and Winchester power point ammo every year with no trouble or fuss. Y'all have been making a big deal out of nothing.

Whether it's an eld match (oh the horror, a target bullet) or a hammer or a Barnes or a swift or a boring old cheap soft point…shoot a Saskatchewan black bear (maybe they have superpowers in other states and provinces, I don't know, I live in Saskatchewan and have never hunted anywhere else) in the lungs with any "typical" weight bullet of dang near any make (barring FMJs) from about any "typical" all purpose big game cartridge and they're going to get real dead real fast.

I personally do not consider them "dangerous game". At all. Unless the encounter involves me not having a gun haha. But some of you guys are acting like bullet selection matters so much with this kind of hunt, I'd swear you were talking about Cape buffalo or rhinoceros or a polar bear on cocaine

 

[Calvin45]

Moreover my father has stopped one that actually did take a run at him (from out of a mostly but not fully empty grain bin it was helping itself to) from about 15 yards with a 30-30 and Winchester power points.

I know an older guy from church, has livestock and lives near a water source, tons of bears all the time…he's taken about two dozen over his life with a .270 win with 140 grain hornady btsp interlocks. Theyve all died swiftly.

 

[2buffalo]

Good Lord! The hunt was successful and long over and folks are still bickering on this thread???!!! Count me in!!!!

Hearing what quite frankly is a lot of opinionated borderline nonsense about how target bullets aren't okay for hunting or about how copper bullets are better or worse or anything in between…

How the hell did people ever manage to kill anything with round lead balls and blackpowder? Let alone bows and arrows?

I'm glad we've had so much improvement and fully support the eternal pursuit of a better mousetrap. But as I said waaaaay earlier in this dumpster fire…

Oh for crying out loud people we're talking a Saskatchewan black bear, not a polar bear or an alaska/Yukon monster grizz or Kodiak.

People kill them with 30-30s and Winchester power point ammo every year with no trouble or fuss. Y'all have been making a big deal out of nothing.

Whether it's an eld match (oh the horror, a target bullet) or a hammer or a Barnes or a swift or a boring old cheap soft point…shoot a Saskatchewan black bear (maybe they have superpowers in other states and provinces, I don't know, I live in Saskatchewan and have never hunted anywhere else) in the lungs with any "typical" weight bullet of dang near any make (barring FMJs) from about any "typical" all purpose big game cartridge and they're going to get real dead real fast.

I personally do not consider them "dangerous game". At all. Unless the encounter involves me not having a gun haha. But some of you guys are acting like bullet selection matters so much with this kind of hunt, I'd swear you were talking about Cape buffalo or rhinoceros or a polar bear on cocaine

You need to stop arguing about bullets and get outside with a garden hose in your hand and put out those fires. You're killing us down here.

 

[Calvin45]

You need to stop arguing about bullets and get outside with a garden hose in your hand and put out those fires. You're killing I'd down here.

I mean they're not great for us up here either haha.

On a serious note, I beleive Alberta is having a much harder time with fire than Saskatchewan. As is Quebec and Nova Scotia of all places, last I heard anyway.

Hot and dry year, my spicy pepper plants are happy at least.

But my 3 year on son has severe asthma and I'll never prove it but I'm convinced it had something to do with him being born 5 weeks early (he's a twin) AND having been put on intravenous antibiotics as a newborn PREVENTATIVELY. he didn't even have any signs of infection but because my wife's water broke early with him they loaded the newborn up with strong meds "just as a precaution". In hindsight I still am thankful for all the doctors who cared for us and got us home safe but I wish they hadn't done that. But I'm not a doctor…I still deferred to their judgment

Anyways, every stinking time the wall of smoke rolls in he ends up in the emergency room on a nebulizer and being put on high dose steroids cuz the poor boy can't breathe! Ugh

 

[nralifer]

"Target bullets tend to shoot accurately but when the manufacturer discourages their use in hunting, that is something to take note off. Guys will do what they want to do, regardless, so using a fragile target bullet that fails is their responsibility and they have to be accepting of the results. Target bullets for short range Bear hunting is not a good idea since they are fragile and at a high impact velocity there is an elevated risk of very poor penetration. Just my opinion."

It is my understanding that target bullets actually have a heavier wall thickness (to handle the heat of rapid firing) so they may not expand as well when used as a hunting bullet. Nevertheless, I have used Berger hybrid target bullets in both 7mm and 30 caliber with excellent results for hunting animals to the size of elk. I have also used the Berger EOL bullets similarly. Choose your bullets and shot placement according to your information and understanding and I will do the same.

Anecdotal data is basically what all of us use to guide bullet selection. I have reports of hunters that use those bullets with mixed results. Deeply penetrating and reliably expanding high BC copper bullets give the hunter much more flexibility on shot selection making heavily quartering shots and even Texas heart shots possible. A spear is effective at killing things but not my choice to hunt with.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

Oh for crying out loud people we're talking a Saskatchewan black bear, not a polar bear or an alaska/Yukon monster grizz or Kodiak.

I read that the Inuit people shoot all of their Polar Bears with a .223. LMAO

 

[nralifer]

I read that the Inuit people shoot all of their Polar Bears with a .223. LMAO

The guide I used to get the Coastal Black Bear also guides Alaskan Brown Bear hunts and backs up his hunters with a custom built 338 Federal AR10

 

[memtb]

The guide I used to get the Coastal Black Bear also guides Alaskan Brown Bear hunts and backs up his hunters with a custom built 338 Federal AR10

That's just to slow the clients …..so he can make "his" escape! memtb

 

[nralifer]

And……I suppose that guides have not observed varying results from cup and core!

I'm not suggesting that they are bad guides…..but many, probably most have "very" limited knowledge of firearms, ballistic, or bullets! "That's my story and I'm stick'n to it" memtb

All this is interesting to talk about, what does it have to do with short range bear hunting, and the type of bullet most effective at those distances?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

All this is interesting to talk about, what does it have to do with short range bear hunting, and the type of bullet most effective at those distances?

Kinda like everyone knows high bc is needed for short range bear hunting in order to control wind drift? Or something?

 

[nralifer]

Kinda like everyone knows high bc is needed for short range bear hunting in order to control wind drift? Or something?

In a bullet made out of material that can take it, high BC is NEVER bad. In increases bullet energy at impact at all muzzle velocities and increases the effective range of the bullet expressly because high BC bullets retain more of the energy imparted to them by the powder. High BC copper bullets are effective at short and long range and can achieve MVs equivalent to highly ridged low BC copper bullets.

 

[fordy]

Gday

Who do i quote this time

Let's see how this goes after picking myself off the floor from laughter

This place is funny I'll give it that

Time to clear ones head

So many look @ when things go right
While these are good i am not going to dispute they will all kill well with well placed shots within a pills capabilities as they will / do & results from impact to tip are good in most scenarios
Yet we see so much interpretation on these matters that for the new to the sport they must get flabbergasted & put their hands in the air others look @ spectacular looking kills ( that are usually cns ) & go wow that's the pill I need yet their results are vastly different than those portrayed in most cases

Now a better way to look @ things imo is from the part of what is required to get the job done with as minimal fuss across various resistances ( from impact to tip I use ) we can encounter on a critter in the field & while many believe they can place with 100% certainty reality is often different over time & im no angel & gladly put my hand up as I mess up from either my skills that also includes my lack of knowledge on animal behaviour ,environmental factors as the main ones so shot angles are also one we should consider ( imo once again )

So we have various resistances which also encounter / include various impact velocities ( I note this thread takes out a lot of variables as distance is pretty well known & type of hunt & talking broadly ) then we add the angles that these increase the likelihood of a different result than the ideal

Now break those down to where ea pill has its strengths & weaknesses

To me if we understand the weaknesses we give ourselves the greatest strengths by trying to eliminate the weaknesses & one option is choosing our shots accordingly but no guarantee & Murphy will get someone oneday

It's extremely hard to get a good pill on so many levels that tick all the boxes
probably impossible but I like to push bullet companies to try & give us even better pills & through time we have gotten better pills ( not from my doing on the whole as I've done Jack in the big picture but a few I've helped)

The problem is just like in this thread we are all ( majority) coming from the good not the bad

It's on the bad we learn more as where these weaknesses are
Then you enter into some of these companies that treat us as complete idiots !!! & quote what they know will kill across various resistances ,velocity impacts & angles yet reality is vastly different & probably read it out of a book somewhere or what I don't know but I do know they are full of it when you hear some things they say yes they are great @ writing , when a result shows up as less than a ideal it's suddenly a great outcome or start quoting oh look how that went yet when questioned on the actual results there is no response or a deflection occurs yep just like their bullets & that I will stand by 100% & not shy away from

What do we need from a pill to give consistent results
Mine are
Velocity windows ( true ones not the companies some do )
Consistency across these windows consistency across different resistances
True !!! Straight line penertration
Penertration length ( not just the total penertration length a effective wound channel length with around 4 main parts in a wound channel )

Then you need it to get your target which is within a true velocity window level once again most companies stretch the truth on being able to work @ x velocity ( brackets are good if you get anal on where pills excel , work ok , drop off & stink )
So bc is important to some but as in this threads case it's basically useless here & over emphasis from the average shot ranges most take critters @ but I'll take it but in NO WAY !!! if terminal preformance is compromised or less & that's also hard to swallow for some companies as they really don't know what they are talking about or if they do that's really sad
But I'll give them 5 stars for talking it up
( yes I've got to let them feel good with something )

So I'd say just sit back & watch which companies are doing what then you've got the greatest strength & that's knowledge & being able to

I do understand that the majority of people can't find weaknesses as we should be aiming for the best but over the years I've had from sheer numbers enough failures or less than ideal results ( from keeping notes on preformance & autopsies it set a bar for me to watch carefully) to get a great understanding of where pills will fail or give less than ideal results of one pill vrs another occur , from those results we can move to other pills that are better suited for that scenario if it's warranted

I'm lucky to still have enough animal numbers to test these situations on today but my body is saying enough is enough
Like my mind is with some companies lol

Wondering how far I should go with that hmmm

no guru just a muppet that loves learning through field results & compiled a lot of data from a lot of different pills over a lot of years

Looking forward to the next comedy hour

Cheers

 

[Calvin45]

That's just to slow the clients …..so he can make "his" escape! memtb

At this point I feel no remorse for derailing as I see fit. This thread was done for a long time ago!

I hope to one day be such a resilient badass that a guide with a semi auto .338 is only able to "slow me down" as a client in such a situation!

Never mind the bear…worry about that client!!!