Groups?!?!?!?! IM CONFUSED

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by jpbaker, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. jpbaker

    jpbaker Well-Known Member

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    I took my .223 to the range last week and started at about 40 yds (sighting in again).

    Best group I could get outta the stupid thing was about the size of my fist. I was dissappointed. I was only using factory winchester bulk ammo but 3-4" are you kidding me.

    I got got frusterated and just moved target to 100 yds, and it cut a 5-shot ragged hole that was well under .5 MOA.

    Having under $300 in the rifle (not counting scope) I was singing at the top of my lungs (almost).

    But why the poor groups at 30-40 yards? Maybe it was me?

    Rifle is a savage/stevens 200 that has been glass bedded and barrel channel opened up, and panted that aweful stock:)........
     
  2. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what scope you're using, so this is my best guess.

    Good groups at 100 but poor groups 50 and under.?? Most likely parallax.

    Most scopes, even if adjustable; wont focus out the parallax when under 50 yds on high power.
     

  3. jpbaker

    jpbaker Well-Known Member

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    The scope is a Millet TRS-1...

    The parallex was adjusted for aprox 50, power was a bit high cuz I was trying to sight it in Prob (6x-8x).

    TKS
     
  4. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    I think bruce may be right. you cant go by the numbers on your scope. look up on here how to adjust the paralax out of your scope. The other possibility is that your bullet has not yet stabilized at 50 or a combination of the 2.... 50 yards is pretty useless info in my opinion 100+ is where you get your real info. But check into the parallax adjustment and see if that helps
     
  5. IdahoJoe

    IdahoJoe Well-Known Member

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    parallax is one possibility another is luck. Try repeating your 100 yard groups and make sure its consistent. If it is I would vote for parallax.
     
  6. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    paralax...really? being out of paralax causes a 6 to 8moa group? doesn't quite seem plausible to me, but can't say that for sure.

    Need someone to educate us on how paralax could have created such a big problem.

    Reshoot 100 yards to verify results....definitely.
     
  7. tnshooter111

    tnshooter111 Well-Known Member

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    Shoot It again at 100.
     
  8. jpbaker

    jpbaker Well-Known Member

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    I shot several more groups with handloads, the average was .548" @ 100yds One group had a flier that opened it up to an inch, probably my error.

    I tried at 50 yds again, with better results this time, I played with the parallex a bit and the group tightened right up (also was on lower magnification). I need to read up on this and see why this happens.

    Also am I going to have problems with my parallex out past 100 yds? 100yds seems to be ok.

    TKS
    JPB
     
  9. SBruce

    SBruce Well-Known Member

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    Most scopes without parallax adjustment are factory set for 100-150 yds parallax free. Low power scopes (under nine lets say) usually dont have the adjustment.

    Beyond 100 your going to be in better shape than you are when under 50.
    If your scope has the side focus or adjustable objective, you will be able to tune out the parallax for 100 and beyond. Usually, even down to 50-75 yds. But the problem I've encountered with alot of scopes is that they will not adjust out the parallax when the distance is under 50 yds.

    When I bore sight a gun/scope at 25 yds I often see extreme parallax if I am using a high power scope. Leupold used to make an EFR line of high power scopes for close range air gun and rimfire competition. They were specially designed to be able to focus out the parallax at close distance.......most other scopes do not go that close.

    You can eliminate some parallax error by using long eye relief. In other words, slide your eye further away from the scope until you only see a circular portion of the field of veiw. If that portion in centered within the scope ocular and the crosshairs are centered within the circular portion (of what's visible), then you should have minimum parallax affecting things.

    This shouldn't be necessary when you're shooting beyond 50 yds because the scopes' adjustment will take care of it, so long as you adjust it correctly. My great uncle showed me the benifits of carefully adjusting out parallax when shooting 300 yd benchrest about 20 years ago. I've been anal about it ever since.

    If you're getting 1/2 inch at 100; you're good to go for 200 or 300 yd load testing. There's got to be an article or thread here somewhere that explains step by step how to adjust out parallax if you're unsure.

    Good Luck
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  10. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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  11. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

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    I never gave it much thought either till i encountered a similar problem while trying to shoot a rabbit with my hunting rifle at 25 yards, i couldnt hit it but i hit all around it so I started investigating and found what bruce wrote to be the case.